[dereke]

I've been watching waay too many youtube videos about reforestation, agriculture and land management recently and I think I've learned a little from it (links at the end).

We no longer have the number of massive herds of animals that used to roam the plains/savannahs grazing, pooing and to a lesser extent escaping from predators.

This has meant that the grasslands are no longer trampled on and "fertilised". This has caused the grasses to die back, the soil to degrade, to not hold water and to turn to desert. (see the sahara, the outback, parts of china and the usa).

Subsequently we've tried to be really careful with the land and not over graze it etc. which tends to have the opposite effect than what is desired.

Now I also looked into reforestation because I thought trees were the answer. Grow trees sequester carbon etc. But it turns out the cost of doing this £/$ and water (desalination) would actually be outweighed by both the albido effect (green trees absorb more sunlight than deserts that reflect it back) and that trees don't really grow fast enough to have the impact required.

Getting back to the grasslands, it turns out that when you intensively drive a herd over grasslands the grass initially dies back but the root system expands, the plant grows quickly and sequesters carbon into the ground. It actually builds soil and traps carbon and it does it faster than previously thought. The ground is also more permeable to water so when big storms come it actually soaks up the water for later use rather than it running off and causing floods, erosion etc. Also grass is lighter (colour) than trees so the albido effect is not so bad.

This is just my understanding of one part of the problem. This is what I think may be a solution to that:

We need to change the way we manage livestock. Probably change legislation so they can't be kept indoors or feed grains (I think that is a big methane contributor as well). We should have grazing plans for entire countries that manage existing land well and restore broken land. We should stop eating them because we need a big herd to restore the land and we probably need to employ a lot of people to drive the herds (yeeha).

Grazing plans are simple, illiterate people seem to cope fine with them. We've got the technology to scale this and in the west we probably have the maps/surveys etc. to make this relative straight forward.

Whatever ends up being the solution to these problems we need to make government act. Historically the best way to do that has been non violent direct action. As we are at crisis point now (5yrs until the arctic has melted based on current melt) it is really our final option. You may be interested in joining the Extinction Rebellion to make this happen.

My interest grew from this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI But this video has a lot more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7pI7IYaJLI Why growing trees in the sahara won't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfo8XHGFAIQ And this is long but has a lot of detail about holistically managing livestock and the effect on soil structure etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HmoAIykljk Finally the Extinction Rebellion - https://extinctionrebellion.org

[strainer]

I came across those videos before and noticed the main speaker has been giving talks for many years claiming he has transformed the fertility and productivity of multiple cattle farms in the course of research, by simply increasing cattle density and intensity. Alas if there were truth to the idea, Allan Savory would not need to promote it - he could own or have franchised thousands of farms by now.

The purported enhanced stocking strategy would catch like wildfire if it were real and could at least be well documented after years of research, but there are no studies of any substance for it. There is no difficulty in implementing it - just keep more cattle than before, allow it to herd, move the herd around and presto your output increases and costs reduce - climate and environment get fixed and we all eat steak. This is not an exaggeration of the case made in the videos.

I think the theme detracts from the image of practical sustainable farming techniques, which are very real, continue to develop and have to compete in the current economy.

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/plant-rich-diet

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/regenerative-agricul...

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/conservation-agricul...

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/silvopasture

[dereke]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I absolutely agree with you regarding regenerative agriculture and moving towards a plant based diet. We have to do that so we can stop destroying the soil and can actually produce food with adequate nutrition.

With regards to intensive grazing it appears that some farms do do it and there have been some studies that suggest it does work. For instance this study (of which I've only read the abstract) seems to support the technique - http://www.publish.csiro.au/sr/SR07220

There are quite a few more studies and supporting material on this site http://www.regenerateland.com I won't pretend to have read them all but from the few abstracts that I have read it seems to be based in science.

As a vegan I don't want to see more animals being killed and eaten, however if farmers are going to keep farming then they should do it this way (and using silvopasture we need multiple approaches!). However if ensuring the survival of the planet involves using animals to do some work then I'm definitely open to it.

Something which may be of additional interest to you are Forest Gardens which seem to be pretty good at optimising a whole system https://www.agroforestry.co.uk/about-agroforestry/forest-gar.... The book "Creating a Forest Garden" by Martin Crawford is definitely worth checking out if only for the wealth of information regarding types of plants and their use.

[Eddh]

The doubts about the technique seems warranted. On the other hand there is a simple reason why it might be true : if large herds destroyed the herbs on which these herds depend on, they would die off. So from an evolutionary point of view, it makes a lot of sense for large herds to fertilize soil. They NEED grass to thrive.

[strainer]

There are few simple rules to count on. The stability of grasslands depends on circumstances, usually including a range of herbivores to prevent forestation. Mega-fauna, like mammoths used to contribute to grove and prairie creation by eating trees, before humans dominated.

I wrote this to dereke in another comment, I think it is relevant to understanding the present situation: > Two hundred years ago about 60% of the earth surface was covered in mature and native forest. The figure is less than 30% today. Most of the worlds fertile crops are grown on deforested land, on the soil which native forests developed through ecological diversity and lack of erosion. Most of the grasslands which are used for grazing, don't have the soil quality to support demanding crops.

https://www.britannica.com/science/deforestation