[joshstrike]

I don't know. Facebook users didn't even have the power to roll back the outrageous TOS changes, they all know exactly how many of themselves there are. You're telling me they have the power to overthrow the Ayatollah? If so, where's the proof that they've made any positive social changes in the last few years that they've been around? Sure, they helped elect Obama, but that can also be read to mean that social network groups can be just as easily manipulated as any other mass of people.

[jeromec]

Yes, Facebook users did have that power. Whether or not they took advantage of it is another story, but if all Facebook's users decided to leave without a TOS change I bet they would have got the changes because there is no FB without users -- same with governments. And there is a mountain of difference between having motivation to try to effect TOS changes, versus a human condition prevalent with graphic images of your neighbors being beaten and shot in the streets.

So, yes, I do believe the people have the power to overthrow the Ayatollah (or any other govt. for that matter) if they are organized enough. Unfortunately, I don't see that large undertaking helping even if it were to happen because the Iranian people largely want a theocratic government, which to me will be inherently dictatorial. It comes down to this: the Internet is inherently about connections -- connecting computers, which by extension connect people. It's not social networks themselves that provide the magic, they're just vehicles riding on top of that fundamental connection potency; that's where their success has come from. When you want to give people power you let them connect, communicate and organize. When you want to weaken them, you isolate them. It's that simple.

[joshstrike]

Okay, but networking a thousand jihadists makes a stronger jihad, while doing nothing to make them better or less violent people. Networking a million cancer survivors makes people feel better but doesn't do much to cure cancer. Where is the proof that networking millions of apathetic people is going to make them one iota less apathetic, as opposed to just reinforcing their preexisting condition?

[jeromec]

I'm not sure what answer you're looking for me to say. Networking is simply a tool, and like any tool it only provides the potential to be of benefit. But having the tool available is certainly advantageous.

As for apathetic people I'm not sure where you get that. I was able to find a clip that shook me a bit as a freedom loving American. It was during the protests in Iran where a woman openly cries out for help against her oppressive government's actions. Watch it and tell me you consider her and those like her apathetic.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/cnn-interviews-ir...

As emotional as that is, I feel powerless and sad that there is nothing I could do, or expect my government to do. The issue in Iran is political, and it's something that has to be worked out by the Iranian people themselves, possibly like Americans worked it out with the oppressive British government during the Revolutionary War. However, as I've explained above, I don't see that as improving the condition unless the result of any revolt is a constitution being drawn up, as ours was, which is designed to protect citizens' rights and freedoms.

[glhaynes]

But it's not just networking apathetic people — it's networking all sorts of people.

[joshstrike]

Right. Which has a tendency to reduce all discussion to the lowest common denominator.

[Vivtek]

I don't know about you, but I think the existence of HNN is kind of a refutation of your argument. I know I never had the chance, here in rural Indiana, to engage with this many thoughtful people.

What you're forgetting is 99.9999% of all discussion ever has been banal. The only difference is that Google now indexes some of it. The other 0.0001% is what changes the world.

And Google indexes that now, too.