[Mizza]

I've spent a little bit of time and there and found that this is extremely true, but also equally true of America as well.

For instance, although China is absolutely totalitarian when it comes to political freedom, freedom of speech, and even freedom of thought (in fact, far more authoritarian than neoliberals will ever admit), you do feel a lot more "free" at the _street level_. There are basically no traffic laws, you can drink and smoke wherever you want, you can set up a shop on the side of a sidewalk, you can make and sell bootlegs of anything you want - you can even piss and shit in the middle of the street without so much as a second thought about it (this is disgustingly common there.)

On the flip side, in America I can (ostensibly) say whatever you want politically, but I can't legally drink a beer on the sidewalk. I can't open a certain type of shop in a certain area. I can't sell products which use such-and-such technology. I can't even cross the street at certain times and places. Land of the free!

[erikpukinskis]

Interestingly you can set up a microcosm of (many of) the Chinese freedoms you describe in the U.S., but not vice versa.

I can buy some unincorporated land, build a street, and let people piss and shit and sell food and knockoff purses.

However I can’t buy land in China and set up an area with a free newspaper.

This is because the U.S. prohibitions you cite are de facto prohibitions while the Chinese ones are actually human rights not granted by the state.

It’s a somewhat academic distinction in terms of our day to day lives, but it’s meaningful when talking about what social movement tactics are available to us.

[i_am_nomad]

To quote Erlich Bachmann speaking to Jin Yang, “This is Palo Alto... we don’t have the freedoms you have in China.”