[neffy]

Not very often at all. We know the difference. We know, or learn quite quickly, as do the vast majority of men, how to politely say no, to those who wish to be polite.

Stop assuming this is hysteria, it's not. It's a collective, we're just tired of this. And let me also offer some quick and dirty math to support that it's not a majority of men. Let's assume 1% of men don't know how to be polite and in fact enjoy being abusive. They do this on average 1/week to a randomly chosen woman. Within a relatively short time every woman will have had at least one unpleasant experience.

For the most part these individuals pick on people they presume to be easy targets, so some women get treated much worse than others, just as men who are perceived to be easy targets equally have problems - probably with the same guys. That's also why the power dynamics play into it, the definition of easy target depends on that. And at some point, everybody just gives up, deals with their situation as best they can, and tries to never go upstairs ever again in Yale frat houses.

[tomp]

It clearly is hysteria. Maybe it's uncovering a real problem (I am inclined to believe data like from this article), but it's most definitely, obviously a hysteria. The media is very happy to pounce on accusations, and many of the most widely publicised ones have turned out to be either completely false (A Rape on Campus, mattress girl, Oxford Union, Duke Lacrosse, Jian Gomeshi) or extremely overblown (Tim Hunt, Rosetta guy). We cannot talk about this problem clearly and rationally and devise sensible and effective solutions until people stop being hysterical.

[rainonmoon]

This isn't just about the most widely publicised events (in which just as many and more as the ones you listed were spot on) but about something that impacts women at every level of society. Try talking to your female friends about it.

[yourbandsucks]

You're both right here, but also remember that the 'hysterical' ones are a tiny slice of the people who are upset about this. We'll never get to a place where there aren't at least a handful of manic twitter addicts being crazy about the issue.

Waiting "until people stop talking crazy" just means no action, ever.

[sololipsist]

Do you understand that if you perceive non-harassment as harassment, you're perceiving it as harassment, so of course you think you're not misperceiving it? Like, you get that reality is sometimes different from your perception of it?

If someone suggests you're misperceiving something and your only reply is "I'm not because I know I'm not," you have an obvious epistemological problem.

[munchbunny]

If it's one woman who stands out in complaining about harassment, then maybe you have an argument. But you have to believe that a giant chunk of the female population are oversensitive and have siege mentalities in order to actually make a counterpoint to the study.

Do you actually believe that many women are oversensitive to harassment?

[jhfhhhf]

Not really a giant chunk, just a very vocal chunk which might well just be a minority.

Besides, I believe that women are often the target of sexual interest. I just don't believe that it is such a horrible thing as some of them proclaim. At the very least, many don't really have the comparison to what it is like to be unattractive, which is not very pleasant, either.

Many people expend a lot of money and time to become more physical attractive. Few people expend effort to become less attractive.

What's more, if you complain about being "sexually harassed", at the same time you signal "social proof" of you being attractive. So telling such stories is a double whammy: you can show proof that you are attractive, and get some pity points and protection, too.

[dragonwriter]

> Besides, I believe that women are often the target of sexual interest. I just don't believe that it is such a horrible thing as some of them proclaim.

Harassment isn't the same as interest.

Heck, expressions of interest aren't the same as interest.

You are insulting men by equating male sexual interest with harassment.

> What's more, if you complain about being "sexually harassed", at the same time you signal "social proof" of you being attractive.

No, you don't.

Because the people who actually take accusations of sexual harassment seriously don't associate it with attractiveness (people who habitually defend harassers or who are serial harassers themselves like to associate them, at least rhetorically, as part of a defense against harassment claims by arguing that the accuser isn't attractive enough to harass, but that's about as far as the association goes.)

[Falling3]

>What's more, if you complain about being "sexually harassed", at the same time you signal "social proof" of you being attractive.

I'm more surprised than I probably should be about how much this misses the mark. You don't actually believe only "attractive" women are sexually harassed do you?

[neffy]

That's the thing about personal experiences - they tend to transcend epistemology - but fortunately, at least in my case, not basic self-defence techniques.

[jhfhhhf]

Here is the thing: my personal boundary is my perceptions. I won't believe something you tell me, which I perceive otherwise.

That would be the ultimate goal of the power game feminism is playing. Political correctness is another tool for that, censoring my thoughts.

If you want to convince me, show me things I can perceive and factor into my estimate of the situation. Don't ask me to simply believe stuff. That would be mind control and power games, and I am not playing.

[munchbunny]

Here is the thing: my personal boundary is my perceptions. I won't believe something you tell me, which I perceive otherwise.

What? You're just saying in a roundabout way that the truth is whatever you think it is. That doesn't make any sense.

What would it take for you to accept the conclusion of the posted study at face value?

Usually when I encounter someone claiming a great feminist agenda, their minds were made up beforehand and they never even tried to entertain the possibility that they might be wrong. Maybe you're the exception, but that would be counter to my perceptions.

[brenschluss]

Let’s I do something to you and you really don’t like it, but I think it’s okay.

Imagine I say, “Why are you misperceiving my actions as harassment? You seem to have an epistemological problem.”

What’s your response?