[whatajoke]

> I respectfully submit that the man who thought AWT was an acceptable GUI toolkit doesn't have a leg to stand on here.

Where did Gosling say that? I remember reading that AWT was a botched job because they had very little time to ship out a UI toolkit. They replaced it with Swing later.

And if you think Swing also sucks, then try developing swing apps in groovy. Java language sucks even in SWT UIs.

[InclinedPlane]

So you ship a crappy GUI toolkit and you expect OS makers to do what exactly? Suck it up and deal with crap? Do your work for you and implement a higher quality cross-platform GUI toolkit? Or build OS specific tooling to solve the problem where they can? It's no wonder that both Microsoft and Apple ended up making modifications to Java for their own platforms, the platform as it existed was not suitable.

[gaius]

Right, but if even he was unsatisfied with AWT how can he criticize Apple for doing the work for a native look & feel?

[sgift]

From "far more than they needed to be" I read that he thinks they changed "far more than they needed" to change in order for the native look & feel. So, he doesn't criticize their work, he criticizes the way they did the work.