[pjmlp]

I have been jumping between native and web development, alongside backend since the late 90's.

I will take any server side rendering framework, with some sprinkle of JavaScript, over any SPA framework.

A node_modules directory with several thousand packages just for a basic CRUD app, really?

[dm3]

Clojurescript is quite nice in avoiding the whole webpack/npm/grunt/gulp/... build and dependency tooling evolution nonsense. There are a few other compile-to-javascript environments that are as good by now I suspect if you don't like parens as much.

However, I agree that server-side rendering is much simpler in all of the cases where desktop app-like experience isn't required.

[jgalentine007]

I have a very similar background and hate the idea of having a bunch of dependencies too - but I found my Vue pwa 'just works' even with 1007 folders in my node_modules directory. We'll see if it stands the test of time.

[manigandham]

It's a lack of any well designed standard library for JS, combined with weak namespacing and modules, as well as the rougher compilation step.

[dustingetz]

which yields better outcomes: organic growth (open source) or central planning (microsoft)?

[pjmlp]

Central planning for sure, given the lack of UI/UX focus we usually see on open source stacks.

Coding is fun, but providing a productive experience also requires doing lots of stuff that FOSS coders don't invest any resources into it.