[Sohcahtoa82]

$200-500k in the SF bay area is still considered middle class because housing prices have gotten so ridiculously high.

The 2 br, 1 bath, 800 sq foot apartment I live in 3 years ago for $900/month would probably be $2,500 in SV. Likewise, the 1850 sq ft, 3 br, 2.5 bath house I live in now that I bought for $338k in 2015 would probably have been over $1,000,000 in SV.

[mikestew]

$200-500k in the SF bay area is still considered middle class because housing prices have gotten so ridiculously high.

No, that means the middle class can't afford to live in SF. This isn't the first time I've heard this, and I don't know why anyone might think this. As a more extreme example, "middle-class in Pebble Beach is $1MM/year or $20MM net worth". No, there is no middle-class in Pebble Beach, only rich people live there.

[Sohcahtoa82]

I know I'm moving the goalposts here, but the houses in Pebble Beach aren't exactly middle-class houses, and not because of the price. A 4-bedroom, 7-bath, 5000 sqft house just isn't a middle-class home.

It's why I try to define "middle-class" by specific behaviors and possessions, not by dollar amounts.

[refurb]

No, it’s not middle class.

If you recently bought a $1M plus condo in SF, you are most certainly upper class. I don’t care if it was a 2 bedroom apartment.

[kidsnow]

It's not about dollars. It's about your behaviors. Behaviors of the middle class. Middle class people typically do things like own one home, work two jobs, save for their kids' college, keep their cars for a while, etc.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> work two jobs

I wouldn't consider working two jobs to be middle class unless you meant two people in the household working one job each, unless there are a lot of people working two jobs to maintain a middle class lifestyle.

[BuckRogers]

The whole lower vs middle vs upper class split is mostly a fraud. People I've had discussions with about their class in that respect are usually trying hard to make an already meaningless definition make them look great. People who work jobs like mine are always "upper middle class" in their mind.

I wanted to back you up in that you are right that it's behavior that defines classes. But it's more the part that matters, your means of producing wealth. If your money works for you or employs others to work for you, you're investment class or capitalist class. Punching a clock, or picking up a salary check means you're working class. The third class are those who slip below maintaining employment, I call them "capitalism's reserve army" but there's probably a better term for the unemployed.

These little ego boosting distinctions people come up with "upper working class" are meaningless.

[zhte415]

Middle class isn't working two jobs. If anything, it is a couple working one job and the partner doing their own thing: raising kids, personal project, community work.

[walshemj]

No its social status you can be a poorly paid academic/scientist and are middle class but say a train driver on 80k a year will consider themselves working class

[refurb]

Yes, but location matters. If you have the common middle class trappings in SF, you are upper class, not middle.

Hell, if you have a lawn in Sf you are super wealthy.

[walshemj]

Or your parents where hippies in the 60's and you inherited a property.

[frutiger]

Side note: that’s a relative bargain compared to Manhattan.

A 700 sq ft 1 bed/1 bath can easily be $3,000/mo in a desirable neighbourhood such as the East Village. A nicer doorman condo somewhere like Flatiron or the Upper West Side can be amywhere from $10k/mo to $30k/mo for 1000-1500 sq ft (or $3m to $5m for purchase).

And here I was thinking that SF or SV was expensive...

[flashman]

"living at the edge of your means" is not the same as "middle class"

[dragonwriter]

> $200-500k in the SF bay area is still considered middle class because housing prices have gotten so ridiculously high.

$200k-$500k of probably most often part of the classical capitalist-society middle class (petit bourgeoisie) in most of the country, though in some cases it will be high income proletariat (possibly proletarian intelligentsia), but at that level you are probably either driving a substantial share of your income from labor or forgoing income worth a substantial fraction of your current income by avoiding wage labor, so probably not the classical capitalist society upper class (pure capitalists / haut bourgeoisie.)