[jackhack]

And just for completeness, Porsche "only" sold 55,000 cars in 2017. Tesla shipped 30%+ more automobiles in one quarter, yet there is debate about whether Tesla is a viable company and no-one is predicting the imminent demise of that tiny car company, Porsche.

Bias + old thinking dies hard, it seems.

[onion2k]

Volkswagen is the world's seventh-largest company by revenue. Porsche isn't going to disappear overnight because they're backed by a massive corporation. They're at "too big to fail" scale; if they have problems the German government will have to bail them out.

Tesla, even with Elon's ability to raise money, does not have that sort of back up.

[Latteland]

I think it was at least something to consider, whether tesla would ramp up manufacturing and sales enough to become profitable. All signs were looking good, but if they failed to make them in volume they could have failed. It was stunning to me how many financial analysts just looked at the company and said something along the lines of "they just lost 2 billion dollars in q1, x billion in q2, they will be bankrupt by q3 or q4". But they were spending on improving their infrastructure, they were ramping up. I just expected more in depth analysis than that - I guess they just don't see companies selling expensive products with such a slow painful ramp up in production much; they should just feel embarrassed.

[Someone]

For a bit more completeness, Porsche AG group delivered nog 55,000, but 246,375 cars in 2017, and made an after-tax profit of just over €3 billion (https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/annual-sustainability-report...)

[josefresco]

Fun fact: Porsche almost bought VW*. From memory (don't hold me to this) I believe the recession of 2008 nuked these plans, and instead VW bought out Porsche!

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/porsche-and-volkswagen-wh...

[bluedevil2k]

There was a lot of interesting things going on between VW and Porsche 10 years ago. First Porsche silently tried to buy VW by accumulating shares and call options. They ended up with 42% of the shares and call options for another 32%. Since the German state of Lower Saxony owns 20% and would never sell, only 6% of the shares were floating and it created a short squeeze. For a short time, VW was the most valuable company in the world. (1)

Just a year later, after the global recession and the resulting decrease in Porsches sold, they were facing problems repaying debt and ended up being purchased by VW.

(1) https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30...

[beamatronic]

I feel like Porsche has much room to grow. Tesla has made a car that is both sensible and sexy. In the past you had to choose. Anyone in the market for a Tesla might also consider an electric or electrified Porsche. Like a plug-in hybrid Macan.

[sylentmode]

I for one never considered buying a Porsche. Not a fan of the style. Tesla is another story

[neuronic]

Did you just compare a subsidiary of Volkswagen to some singular Silicon Valley startup in terms of production capability, available resources, expertise and infrastructure?

Also, define Porsche:

"Porsche AG is headquartered in Stuttgart, and is owned by Volkswagen AG, which is itself majority-owned by Porsche Automobil Holding SE." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche

I'm a bit skeptical whether Tesla will survive a behemoth like Volkswagen shifting gear towards main focus on electric vehicles.

[kamaal]

>>I'm a bit skeptical whether Tesla will survive a behemoth like Volkswagen shifting gear towards main focus on electric vehicles.

Its more like the other way. Imagine a behemoth having to toss out all that IP, know how, patents, manufacturing, factories, assets, product lines and what not all to compete with a start up.

Why do you think Microsoft can't compete with Android? Doing so requires tearing the Windows Operating system and there by the whole company.

Imagine somebody like Volkswagen being made to do that.

[SEJeff]

Tesla has a head start on serious automotive EV technology, and as a result, has: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Tesla+Inc

No matter what happens, anyone wanting to build serious EVs will at some point be licensing patents, especially the stuff they do which really is cutting edge around their battery packs.

[threeseed]

Head start is no guarantee of success.

History is full of examples of this to be the case. Has Apple ever had a head start on any industry ?

[kamaal]

>>Has Apple ever had a head start on any industry ?

No, and that is also why the iPhone is so expensive.

Almost everything in the iPhone has Apple paying some licensing fees to Qualcomm.

Late entry is not free.

[SEJeff]

My point is that they have a lot of patents around this tech in actual real EVs. Other competitors would have to license it from Tesla.

[lttlrck]

Has Tesla reneged on the "open patents"?

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

[SEJeff]

    Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

Define: Good Faith

[wil421]

Porsche was in bad shape not that long ago and they were pretty much selling cars to fund racing. Today that is certainly not the case and they are making the most profit per car.[1]

I would like to see what Tesla’s profit per car is in a few years once the Model 3 production lines have settled.

[1]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-20/the-porsc...