[a_imho]

I mean the blue collars sitting with other developers at lunch. We can pretend there is a meritocracy out there, but that's simply not true.

Sure, in theory it might be possible to progress as a developer but in practice the roi of putting in enormous effort is simply laughable compared to the alternatives. A few percent raise realistically. Getting to the top? Not a chance.

[manigandham]

Blue collar (in the US) refers to manual labor positions, not software developers.

There are a rare few who are extremely talented and productive individual contributors but most are not, so try to maximize output by working with others. Even small teams have managed to make big impacts in massive companies so I reject the notion that you can't do anything.

But regardless, many people have gotten very high up in many organizations through persistence and patience. It's not easy, and each level will get harder because you have more intense competition for fewer slots, but saying "not a chance" goes directly against the fact that many have done just that.

[village-idiot]

It’s absolutely not a true meritocracy, that’s true.

But if you’re claiming that individual contributor devs never get promoted for good work, that’s just clearly and utterly wrong.

[a_imho]

I claim no one gets to the top for being a hard working developer.

Also claim quality engineering is only loosely correlated with advancement, it is one of the less efficient ways to secure a promotion/raise. In fact, managers often have no idea who is doing a good job.

[village-idiot]

As an absolute statement that is factually incorrect. My former CTO started as a senior developer at the company 16 years ago.

If you want to make the weaker statement that growing from engineer to CTO almost never happens, you’re going to need statistics.

Realistically, humans are mortal and C suite types are made, not born. While not every engineer will become a CXO just due to disparity in job openings, someone needs to be promoted to take the CXO jobs once the previous crop has aged out of the work force. Some of them will be advanced because they’re good workers, others because they’re good at politics. You’ll need some statistics to back up any claim about what percentage are good workers and what percentage are politicians in business clothing.

[manigandham]

You can't get to the top doing the same job. The responsibilities change. There is no CTO who is a day-to-day developer in any sizable organization. The higher you go, the wider the impact.

Some people don't want that change and are happy where they're at. Others cant make that change. But that's what it takes. You can definitely climb the levels by excelling at what you at that particular level. If you still disagree then I would point to the generations of millions of immigrant families that arrived with nothing and earned their way to the top primarily through raw technical merit.

And yes, as stated, impact needs to be measured to be judged. If you do something that nobody knows about, then there's not much you can say.

[C1sc0cat]

By definition developers etc are "professional" grades.

Unfortunately those who are the first in their family to go to uni and go into a professional job don't always get the support and informal knowledge passed to them.

One example would be read a proper newspaper - I can recall when being asked which newspaper you read was a common interview Q in the UK