[timavr]

Due process and presumption of innocence.

As far as US judicial system is concerned Osama and Pablo are innocent.

It is always better to try people in court then kill them, because it limits the chances that someone innocent can be killed.

[TheOtherHobbes]

I don't support the death penalty, but I'll play devil's advocate here - because it seems the trade-off in cases like this is one not-innocent-to-six-sigma person being killed, versus quite a few innocent witnesses being killed.

And the nightmare for witnesses will continue after the trial, because they're never, ever, going to be safe.

It's not a problem with an easy answer.

[timavr]

They still will hunt down the informants or anyone who might be one in case of the assasination. It is not like informants will give out the info in return for nothing. They will probably want money, witness protection and one way ticket to the USA.

Also cartel knows who are the key witnesses. It is not like the El Chappo discussed his business with infinite number of people. I would say 10-20 max if not less. So they just make a list and see who is present/not present and where are their families.

Though I am not even sure prosecution needs star witnesses. I don’t think there is a juror left who has no opinion on El Chappo.

The bigger problem is that dealing with El Chappo, killing or otherwise, is not actually solving the problem of cartels having nearly infinite resources to pursue informants/witnesses.

In a way dealing with cartel is like dealing with a state actor, but without traditional tools because they are outside the international law.

The only way is legalize the whole thing to bring drug trade into legal framework.

In the end the only leverage USA has is its market. So if they give market to legal entities, cartels and violence associated with them will go away.

[i_am_nomad]

“In the end the only leverage USA has is its market. So if they give market to legal entities, cartels and violence associated with them will go away.”

Oil is legalized in the US, yet a cartel has until recently dominated that market, and OPEC’s members certainly use violence to maintain their control. The only thing displacing OPEC now isn’t a free market, it’s local production.

[dredmorbius]

Oil has been cartelised, in one form or another, for virtually its entire modern history.

Standard Oil, the Seven Sisters, the As-Is agreement, Texaas Raialroad Commission, National Producers, OPEC.

There are economic reasons.

[moftz]

Except we don't have bodies hanging off bridges and school buses full of dead children because the oil companies want to show who's boss.

[i_am_nomad]

Sounds like you're unfamiliar with the handiwork of the House of Saud, or Vladimir Putin. Both of them have a very high body count and list of atrocities done in the name of oil revenues.

[moftz]

Russia isn't a member of OPEC but they still work with them. The oil cartels don't exactly have the same egregious violence that the drug cartels are known for, it's a bit different but the Saudis do have their own way of influencing the region.

[bigpicture]

> As far as US judicial system is concerned Osama and Pablo are innocent.

Osama bin Laden was tried and convicted for the first WTC bombing

[swarnie_]

> presumption of innocence.

I know this is the cornerstone of all law in western countries but its a really difficult thing to argue for in this case.

[timavr]

It is the best system invented.

Like maybe someone learned mind control and made El Chapo do it. But when he is not under mind control he is 100% law abiding citizen.

It will be a crazy defense, but it will be up to jury determine if that is the case.

Or another scenario is that El Chappo had no choice because rogue officials in the US demanded him smuggle drugs to the US or his family will be killed.

[supergirl]

except you can’t have a fair trial in the US anyway. so presumption of innocence is just a mythical phrase (same as freedom of speech). money wins trials in the US. in this case the defense has to outspend the US gov. plus all high profile trials become media circuses that influence the outcome.

[Digit-Al]

It's the cornerstone of law for a very good reason. As soon as you start making exceptions you have to have some agency who can decide who are the exceptions. You then have an agency that can summarily execute anyone they wish with no recourse. This is not a situation any sane person should desire.