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by mistermann 2821 days ago
> It's almost impossible to avoid this once the values are already ridiculous, but what the article suggests can mitigate it somewhat: Sustained moderate inflation combined with a large increase in the housing supply, so that real values come down even though nominal values are stable.

I'm having trouble understanding what inflation means in this context.

From the article:

> There is a way out, but it’s not a pleasant one. The economically unpleasant period of the mid-1970s, when GDP fell sharply and inflation rose to 25%, was relatively short-lived, largely because the inflation bailed out the housing market, which had already become overblown in 1973. Only a similar but more prolonged period of inflation, which will depress real house prices even as nominal house prices decline less, bailing out the mortgage market, will enable the British economy to avoid the truly disastrous situation of mass mortgage default.

> Provided the inflation takes place as required, the young will manage to navigate this situation successfully. They will be able to negotiate salary increases, as we were in the 1970s, so that their living standards keep up, more or less, although they may feel pinched. The declining real value of homes will bring more and more possible house purchases into their view, although they may find the landscape very short of mortgage lenders. Since the period of price decline is only beginning, the luckiest will be those too young to have got themselves on the housing ladder at inflated prices, not the silly Millennials, but post-Millennials.

If we're speaking about price inflation, isn't that literally what a massive housing bubble is, the mother of all price inflation scenarios (setting aside the fact that government statisticians cook the books in various ways in order to show shelter costs are perfectly inline with other prices, completely regardless of what prices are really doing, because it's abnormal)?

And if we're speaking about monetary inflation,well, where did all the money come from in the first place to make housing so expensive? Yes I know, when one house sells in a neighborhood or city everything is revalued, but when you've been at it for 10++ years and have had significant turnover of the entire inventory, this excuse begins to run thin after a while. If GDP growth is more or less flat, and there isn't negative growth in other areas like consumer spending, where is all the money coming from to execute the transactions?

Is anyone aware of any articles that try to mathematically reconcile this on a macro basis, because it makes completely no sense to me. At least in Canada it appears to be almost pure magic that at most will only take a periodic breather before the relentless upward march resumes (see the slight dip during the 2008 global meltdown, the devastating crash in oil prices that only caused a flatline in oil-rich Calgary, or real estate capital gains in Vancouver being larger than earned income). As silly as it sounds, I am starting to believe that we're somehow mis-measuring something fundamental somewhere in the system, and that this time really is different. If it isn't, then how can this be quantitatively explained? Sure, it's easy to handwave it away with "the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent", but can one reconcile that with the actual reported numbers? Does what's happening add up?

4 comments

The money has come, both directly and indirectly, from global capital markets. Countries like China, Russia, Germany, and Japan save a lot of money, and would like to put it somewhere where it'll be a productive investment earning interest. If Canadian property looks attractive for that purpose, some of that money will head in that direction.
> And if we're speaking about monetary inflation,well, where did all the money come from in the first place to make housing so expensive? Yes I know, when one house sells in a neighborhood or city everything is revalued, but when you've been at it for 10++ years and have had significant turnover of the entire inventory, this excuse begins to run thin after a while. If GDP growth is more or less flat, and there isn't negative growth in other areas like consumer spending, where is all the money coming from to execute the transactions?

I've struggled with a similar question. Where does the money come from? The US GDP has increased ~500x (unadjusted for inflation) in the last 100 years, this means each dollar has to be transacted 500x more frequently on average than it did 100 years ago (assuming a fixed supply). How does this work?

This would be partially explained by: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money

I don't completely understand it either though, say you cut one blade of my grass and I pay you $20, then I cut one blade of your grass and you pay me $20, rinse repeat and you get massive GDP, but no increase in wealth. Now do something similar with housing, except this time print a whole bunch of money and pour it all into housing (including construction), and compare that to a country that instead invests into education and building manufacturing plants - who is going to be wealthier?

I think this is all far more complicated than governments let on, or maybe they actually don't even understand it all, from what I can tell a large number of economists don't, so perhaps it's no surprise we're in the situations we are.

I believe the author is referring to high inflation as measured by things that reserve banks look at (in Australia this would be the consumer price index etc); while house prices either stay stagnant or rise slower than said rate of inflation.

Thus, the nominal price of housing is maintained, while the real value tanks.

How this might happened is something I do not have the economics to know - as you mentioned, an increase in the supply of money would probably simply flood into the existing housing market, overheating it further. Arguably, that's what's happened in Australia post 2008 and the US pre-2008.

> I believe the author is referring to high inflation as measured by things that reserve banks look at (in Australia this would be the consumer price index etc); while house prices either stay stagnant or rise slower than said rate of inflation. Thus, the nominal price of housing is maintained, while the real value tanks.

Yes, this makes perfect sense in theory - housing inflation has dramatically outpaced everything else, so if the government causes a whole bunch of monetary inflation by printing money and that money doesn't go into housing but goes into other things (maybe even wages!), then it will let those prices catch up, while also devaluing the cost of the housing debt.

But I think printing money is what got us into this situation in the first place, it just mostly all went into housing, to stop that from continuing you'd need to change the collective beliefs of nearly the entire population. This is one thing that could genuinely be "different this time": the belief that real estate always goes up. And you can hardly blame people, because it's more or less true, and is virtually guaranteed by more than one government policy.

I think the key is interest rates.

Most housing doesn't face the demand part of supply and demand in the purchase price. The demand curve is set by the monthly payment. The relation between monthly payment and total price is controlled by the interest rate.

So if interest rates rise, home prices have to drop (or at least not rise) until wages rise.

Unfortunately, this doesn't actually help, because it doesn't lower peoples' monthly payments...

Housing markets are only overheated if supply is not keeping up. There are scenarios where an overheated market leads to oversupply of housing; but there is a few years' lag between investing in construction and the units coming online due to the time it takes to finance and construct housing.
> Housing markets are only(!) overheated if supply is not keeping up.

Would this imply that there was a tulip shortage in Holland in the 1630's, or am I being excessively pedantic and should have assumed a prefix of "In the long run...."?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Or another way of putting it is: is there evidence that all markets are perfectly balanced at all times, always and everywhere? Is the market perfectly rational, or do various ratios sometimes vary for no mathematically obvious reason?

If supply were able to keep up with demand, then the tulip price could've stayed the same. Of course, we live in the real world, where you can only ramp up production of good so quickly. But no one said the demand is rational.

There are places which manage to build housing without massive price appreciation, like Tokyo. But once the market's too overheated because of supply mismatch you basically can't cool it down only using construction, because construction time takes so long.

> But no one said the demand is rational.

If the demand isn't rational (for example, actual need for physical shelter), it doesn't require a lack of supply for a market to become overheated.

Markets can be very strongly affected by greed and mass delusion, an actual lack of supply is not required to drive prices up significantly. You could have a fun pedantic argument over that last statement if you don't want to differentiate on the different kinds of demand, but my point is that demand can vary dramatically with little change in underlying fundamentals - human emotion is more than enough.

Exactly...housing, like stocks, are in bubbles due to unrestricted printing of money.