[retree]

it is taboo to drop out of universities, which remain poor incubators

This is definitely true. I'm currently at a top UK university, and there is very little incentive to start a startup. Whilst a friend a Stanford has access to an entrepreneur group with a budget of half a million dollars just for having a good idea, we have business plan writing competitions.

The very idea of dropping out of universities is met with horror, by other students, staff and relatives. They would rather you just go through uni and get a job at a nice bank or accounting firm somewhere. Starting a startup as a student isn't the norm, there seems to be too much friction.

There also appears to be much less of a can-do atmosphere and much more aversion to risk in the UK for current university students. This isn't to say there isn't a good startup scene here - but it's mostly hardware/biotech; most of the other stuff seems started by mid-30s ex Goldman Sachs bankers.

Edit - I've just found this article - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2010... from Rory Cellan-Jones of the BBC which is a good read as well

[pmjordan]

I doubt it has much to do with the university drop-out rate. In Austria, it's the norm to drop out of university but my gut feeling is that the UK has more startups per capita.

That said, I got my degree in the UK (York, in the top 10 at least at that time) and there was no entrepreneurial angle at all. There was one guy in the careers office who encouraged you to enter business plan competitions and ran one or two seminars (which were vague and focused on coming up with an idea, not practicalities) but you only found out about that if you looked for it. I only ever contemplated opting out of the standard "get a job" career path because I stumbled across PG's essays via his "plan for spam". Up to that point the "get a job" indoctrination was working perfectly. As far as I can tell from friends, it's similar in Austrian universities (except they don't even tend to have careers offices).

Honestly, I think the best way Europe could help the startup situation is to somehow convey the message that the worst that can happen if you fail isn't really too bad. Also, everyone seems to be scared of the "business angle", so that could be addressed by running a module or two on practical small-business bookkeeping, accounting, tax and incorporation basics in sci/eng degree courses. Because, let's face it, those things are not actually that hard, at least not in the UK. Rest of EU needs to get rid of their idiotic capital requirements for setting up limited companies and severe penalties for bankruptcy. Lower social security/tax rates at low self-employed income levels would be appreciated, too. (those could easily be financed by killing all those stupid grants schemes that are so complex no small company could afford the lawyers required to figure them out)

[retree]

It's definitely true that the UK has lots of startups. But I think the problem is that people at universities, or university staff don't even consider it. Looking at the two best known (to your average consumer) startups in the UK - Betfair and Ocado, both were started by people in their mid 30s. I can't think of many started by people in their early 20s, which I think is a huge oppurtunity being missed.

There is definitely a stigma of failing. It feels like if your startup fails in the USA it isn't too big a problem, you just pick yourself up and start again. In Europe I get the impression that a failed start up reflects poorly on you - leading to a risk averse culture.

[pmjordan]

But I think the problem is that people at universities, or university staff don't even consider it.

Universities have historically not been the place for training up professionals or business people, but pure scholars. The vast majority of staff at universities are in the latter category to this day, probably less so in engineering disciplines or medicine. Expecting them to prepare students for the real world in a job, let alone running a business, is unrealistic. (nobody even teaches you how to do basic things like salary negotiations, forget about raising capital)

I'm not sure what the solution is, but making professors run awkward "soft skills" courses is definitely not it.

[drpancake]

This echoes my experience at a UK university. The 'entrepreneurial' society is borderline inactive apart from the token yearly business plan competition.

Nobody really talks about startups. I've not met a single student who's planning to go it alone after graduation day, let alone drop out. Perhaps that's just the limited demographic occupied by my course mates and other friends.

However we do have Dragon's Den and people are clearly inspired by it - at least in principle. I do wonder whether it's had any affect on the number of startups.

[pmjordan]

I wouldn't exactly describe Dragon's Den as "inspiring" TBH. "Depressing" is the word that more readily springs to mind.

[zeemonkee]

I think its popularity derives more from the fun of seeing people humiliated and their dreams crushed, unfortunately.

[pmjordan]

Even when they do invest, it seems the valuations tend to be awfully low (and the equity stake of the investors far too high). Plus, you'd think that with TV budgets they could get participants some coaching on how to pitch.

Sorry to get carried away, I find the whole programme extremely disrespectful. :-/

[ig1]

I started writing a reply on here about why the stakes they take are reasonable, but it got fairly long winded so I stuck it up on my blog instead:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1811882

[drpancake]

I wouldn't go as far as depressing, but I agree that it's not a great show. But at least it raises awareness.

[ig1]

It's pretty taboo to drop out of university in the US as well. The article also relies the false causality link between dropping out of university and being successful.

University incubators typically focus on research spin-offs (both in the US and the UK) - while US universities in general are better at this than UK universities, it doesn't really have any relevance to Facebook style companies.

There does seem to be a higher amount of risk-aversion though.

[alextgordon]

Completely true. In the UK there's a lot of emphasis put on what's seen as the normal progression from school to higher education to employment.

Startups are rarely mentioned in the media, and mentioned even less outside it. The only exception I can think of is Dragon's Den on the BBC, where people with little experience and even worse ideas sell half their business for a pittance in order to entertain the country. I guess that about sums it up.

I think another issue may be the different views on business.

In the UK, businesses are seen as entities that must be restrained, otherwise they will do Bad Things. This is reflected in the immense amount of legislation regulating businesses, employment, consumer rights, etc.

There's much less of this in the US - businesses are an integral part of the culture, and you can't really go anywhere without being reminded of that.

In a way it's comparable to the mild distrust of government in the US: just as Americans look to the constitution to protect them from government, Brits look to the government to protect them from businesses.

[ig1]

I disagree, the UK is one of the flexible places in the world to start/run a business. The World Bank ranks the UK as the 5th easiest place to do business in the world (the US is 4th).

I don't think I've met a single startup in the UK whose main problem with the UK was legislative or regulatory.

[pmjordan]

Yeah, I think it's mostly the perception of people who haven't dealt with it in practice.

[qntm]

Why would a university incite you to drop out of it? What does the university gain from that?

Why would you go to university with the intention of dropping out as soon as your startup gains traction? Why not just start your startup right out of secondary school and save yourself thousands in tuition fees?

Failing that, what's wrong with finishing your degree and then starting your startup?

[nck4222]

"Why would a university incite you to drop out of it? What does the university gain from that?"

Well, I'm sure they wouldn't incite you to do it, but look how much Harvard has gotten from Facebook, even with the founders dropping out.

They're mentioned in the media any time Facebook or Zuckerberg are (blog articles, newspaper articles, a movie...), they gain prestige as "the place Facebook was founded," and the founders of Facebook will probably make (or already have made) generous monetary contributions.

[zeemonkee]

Thanks for the article. The bit about media-driven scare stories rings true.