[masklinn]

> The amount of crippling done by the carriers is not Android's fault nor is it in any way advantaged by Android being open.

Of course it is. Proof in the pudding: iOS has none of it.

> The same crapware has been on Symbian and other (closed) mobile operating systems for a long time.

because Symbian and WiMo were open to carriers and manufacturers.

> I don't know what is stopping HTC/Motorala/Samsung from trying to enforce similar conditions for its Android-based devices.

Because they don't care and because their client is the carrier, not the end-user. An aussie ISP put it quite succinctly a few days/weeks ago when they declared they didn't understand why Apple didn't bow to their demand when they were its biggest customer in Australia.

To Apple, carriers are not customers. They're generally hindrances and they might be partners, but Apple's customers are end-user.

Not so for HTC or moto.

[larsu]

Of course it is. Proof in the pudding: iOS has none of it.

You missed my point, which was that the crippling is not Android's fault but that of the carriers and phone manufacturers. Its also not due to some inherent property of iOS that it doesn't have any crapware, but thanks to Apple caring about their customers more than about the carriers.

To Apple, carriers are not customers. They're generally hindrances and they might be partners, but Apple's customers are end-user.

Not so for HTC or moto.

Exactly. But again, this has nothing to do with Android or its openness.