[destartupop]

I've been trying to build deep tech startups in Germany for 6 years. I managed to sell the first one I built to a US company (for a very small amount of money) and started afresh after taking a break as an employee.

Right now I'm at the point of giving up again because it's so damn hard to find customers here. In my opinion, for deep tech startups the problem is not primarily access to capital but access to customers, as the corporate culture is extremely hostile towards startups. Large corporations are very risk-averse and most of them won't ever consider buying a product from an unproven startup. The ones that want to work with startups often have started their own incubators where they try out ideas by hiring teams and building startups that they fully control (50 % shares belong to the parent company from the beginning).

Also, from my experience getting seed funding becomes harder the more experienced you are here: If you just finished university it's easy to get a so-called EXIST grant, which will pay a little more than 100.000 € to fund a team of three people for a year. That's how most (or at least many) of the successful startups get funded here. The thing is, if you have been working for 5 years or more you will be ineligible for that program, and your options for getting seed money are very restricted. This is weird as people with industry experience usually have a much better chance at building something relevant and successful than a recent university graduate with no business experience. They have a much harder time finding money though.

There are counterexamples and very successful deep tech startups of course, I just think we could have many more of those if we had a system that actually encouraged and helped people to build these companies.

I can understand that many people decide against it, especially when you're a good technician / engineer you can earn much more in industry and there's very little to gain by leaving your position.

[jayalpha]

Agreed.

* Lack of capital

There is just much less VC available, even if normalized for the difference in size.

I know the VC scene a little bit in Germany. Total monkeys.

* Lack of attitude

Germans are much more hierarchical. Both in science and entrepreneurship I found the American personality much more suited.

* Lack of vision

You will find money in Germany for a personalized cereal/granola mix shipment service (was just an exapmple, but in fact I think it exits) but if you are into a disruptive technology they will balk. Both have different risks but both also have different pay-offs.

Edit: Reasons given due to the downvote

[hef19898]

Your cereal mix service is called Mymüsli. During the time I investigated funding options I was considering to enter a business plan contest. The information given by everyone was that only inovative tech start-ups would be considered. One of the runner ups in the end was a service that allowed you to by food from local farmers, limited to one metropolitan area.

I have my doubts that the general start-up ecosystemin germany knows what they are doing.

[jayalpha]

Why the down-vote? I think I know what I am writing about.

[yorwba]

> Total monkeys.

[Jdam]

I‘d have been eligible for EXIST, but that program is a bad joke. 100k for 3 persons for one year before tax? C‘mon. That is financial sucide, if you’re in tech these days.

[destartupop]

It's not much money but absolutely sufficient to cover expenses and focus on building your startup. It paid 2500 € / month in income per person back in the day, and until recently the money was considered tax-free (as a scholarship) so it corresponded to a gross salary of about 50.000 € (without social security or retirement of course, so subtract 300 € per month for that). Now it's no longer considered tax-free but they increased the amount a bit in response, I'd say you will get 2.000 € in net income per month if you have a PhD (people with a Master or Bachelor degree get 500 € or 1000 € less, respectively). It's still not a tech salary but a living wage, and actually similar to what many people in non-tech jobs earn working full-time.

On top of that the program pays about 50k (?) for additional expenses, which you can use to e.g. rent an office, hire freelancers or cover legal costs.

For comparision, YC gives you 150k for a team of usually 2-3 people, and living expenses in SV are way higher than in Germany. So I wouldn't consider it a "bad joke" personally. Also, while the tutoring is not as good as YC some universities (especially TU Munich / LMU Munich and TU Berlin) provide really excellent mentoring, so I'd say overall it is a great program.

I'm just bummed out that nothing comparable exists for people with longer industry/work experience.

[chillydawg]

Consider, for a moment, you have a great idea and a couple of friends to start a company. You have no money. Is 100k to give it a shot "suicide"? Of course not. If you're at the right time in your life, this is an excellent opportunity. Not everywhere has $4k/mo rents and $10 coffees.

[hef19898]

Yeah, and than you have to pass a panel deciding whether your "idea" is innovative enough. It reminded me more of a game of buzzword bingo than a viable investment procedure. As your not allowed to incorporate before enter EXIST it is just a waste of time. Not to mention that it all depends on how well you are connected at your university, and if government funds are available.

[destartupop]

I'd say the chances of getting a grant are very good, back in the day the success rate was around 50 % and you could apply up to three times (to my knowledge), which made it highly likely that you'd get the money if you were persevering. It's true that you have to choose a good university as the quality of the provided coaching and mentorship varies wildly. I can recommend LMU & TU Munich as well as TU Berlin or one of the other well-known technical universities (e.g. RWTH Aachen), to my knowledge they have very good programs. You don't need connections at your university either, you just need to convince a professor to support your application, which they are often happy to do as it counts towards the amount of funding they raised, which is a relevant metric to them.

If you can get that money it's really an excellent opportunity and will help you to get further funding, as I said before I just find it sad that nothing comparable exists for experienced people from industry.

[hef19898]

I tried a while back. Not being at one of the universities you mentioned ,I would have been an extension from TU Munich. Funds where hard to come by at that time (right after the elections, so no governmant, no government budget, no EXIST funds). In the end, I talked to all relevant profs at my university, they talked to the giys at TUM, and the feed-back was "no need to tey, your idea is not innovative enough. Try a bank or bet your house."

Also the expected time line was around 6 months to get into the program, so for me it would have just been a colosal waste of time.

EDIT: While coaching is anive thing, it is access to follow-up funding that matters. At let's be honest in that regard YC is different league all together. And if you don't need funding beyond 100k you really could have used bank in the first place.

[Nimitz14]

Thank you for taking the time to write this out, this could really help me!

[kayoone]

Doing a startup is usually a financial mistake, that's why it's risky. I founded a startup in Germany and got a similar amount of seed funding of 150k for 2 founders and spread that money over a team of 5 living on a minimum salary. For me that was a risk i was willing to take to pursue my dream and I don't regret it despite not making it in the end.

[sarabande]

Can you share which deep tech startup companies you find successful in Germany?