[KirinDave]

Here is a quick guide to avoiding them: "Unless you are using Haskell at a very high level of abstraction, Coq, Agda, Pie or Idris: congratulations you have avoided them."

It's not really clear why you'd want a book about the downsides of a quite recent development in practically usable programming models. Is it just because you are a hater?

[bbeonx]

My guess is because OP has been burned by the "LEARN THIS NEW THING, IT'S REALLY COOL AND POWERFUL AND ALL OF THE COOL KIDS ARE DOING IT (and oh by the way many of the simple things you do all the time are incredibly inconvenient...)" narrative one too many times.

Adopting something purely on it's merits is a bad idea, but nobody ever writes the book about a language/paradigm's downsides. I'm pretty sure that was the joke, but I might be off.

[owl57]

nobody ever writes the book about a language/paradigm's downsides

Indeed. One can argue that books like "optimizing X" or "secure X" are about ways to easily write slow or insecure code in X, but this is somewhat narrow. Is there never enough demand for a broader book on downsides of X?

[DonHopkins]

Bertrand Meyer's book on Eiffel was all about the downsides of C++.

And then there's the Unix-Hater's Handbook...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unix-Haters_Handbook

I wrote a whole chapter about the downsides of X -- do you think there's a need for a broader book? ;)

https://medium.com/@donhopkins/the-x-windows-disaster-128d39...

[severine]

> I wrote a whole chapter about the downsides of X

I lol'ed 6-8 times... Still, I have to say that I'm loving my distros lately; distro maintainers, you rule!

Some typos in the article:

eents/events client an/client can because it the/because it solved? the tires/tries ore dump/core dump trwe/tree piel/pixel resulution/resolution ertain/certain N ot/Not screens een have/screens have

[mcguire]

The one where you demonstrated that you don't know the difference between a client and a server? :-)

[DonHopkins]

How's it "not knowing the difference" to explain that the usage of the terms client and server switched over time, in the sense of which is local and which is remote?

An xterm client running on a VAX mainframe connects to an X11 server running on a Sun workstation: the X11 client is remote, the X11 server is local.

A web browser client running on a phone connects to a web server running in the cloud: the web client is local, the web server is remote.

Right?

[mcguire]

Exactly! I, too, used to live in an office next to a machine room full of "web clients"! :-D

(Actually, I'm one of those deluded fools who claim a "server" provides a "service" to one or more "clients", who make "requests". Yeah, I know, but I figure somebody has to keep the joke funny.)

[AzzieElbab]

Loled. I used to do phone support for x11 servers for pcs. This terminology confused people to no end

[KirinDave]

There are tons, but we really need to ask if any of this is a fair topic for Dependent Typing, which has only emerged from pi-calculus musings on paper to compilers that can do more than prove simple structural recursion.

It's like seeing a photo of a baby and asking why there isn't a service to provide police records for babies, because you "just want to be careful, you know?"

[KirinDave]

It's not even really possible to "adopt" dependent typing today. It's only emerged from the realm of academic curiosity and only two implementations exist that are anywhere near "practical" in the context you're describing.

Both of those implementations are very honest about their shortcomings, and nearly every talk and blogpost for them mentions you can't yet use this in many industrial contexts.

It's very difficult to see this as anything but the usual distate for PL theory that constantly swirls around this community. If the author didn't intend to associate a post with that, then they've done it by accident.

[ernst_klim]

>only two implementations exist that are anywhere near "practical"

Out of curiosity, why F* or Idris are not practical?

[KirinDave]

F* and Idris are precisely the ones I had in mind, although I guess you could make an argument for Agda.

What did you think I was imagining? I can only name 5 DT languages off the top of my head.

[ernst_klim]

So, why are they not practical in your opinion?

[avip]

Here's one for JS http://johnkpaul.github.io/presentations/empirejs/javascript...

[jackfraser]

Unless said language is PHP, in which case there's no end of diatribes about it