[jamesg]

If you're considering learning Dvorak, I'd strongly recommend considering Colemak instead. I tried Dvorak with the hope that it would mitigate RSI, but it spreads the work among fingers pretty unevenly -- I really ended up just moving the problem rather than fixing it (mostly to my right pinky).

Colemak is (relatively) easy to learn if you know QWERTY, and it's been life-changing for me: I can work for more hours of the day, and I suspect more years of my life with Colemak.

Interestingly, I tried configuring my phone for Colemak a while ago and had to switch it back. The relatively small movements you make with Colemak meant that the swipe typing thing was just about useless -- it just couldn't discriminate between words.

[Nadya]

I second this - as someone who learned Qwerty as most Americans do, then learned about alternative keyboard layouts and ended up learning Dvorak, then finally settled on Colemak. In each of them I was able to type 120+wpm, and 140wpm+ in Qwerty and Colemak, so I consider myself a proficient typist.

Dvorak offered no benefit to me. I firmly believe that any differences or gain that people attribute to Dvorak is attributed to finally learning how to properly type. Many people make this switch from a misguided thought that Dvorak will help them type faster (it will - but only because you relearn how to type) or that it is more ergonomic (I firmly believe that it isn't - but you're likely using proper finger movements now and thus it will be more comfortable).

Colemak is noticeably more ergonomic and doesn't mess up as many default keybinds. I much prefer typing in Colemak than Qwerty, although I type in both to retain my ability to type in Qwerty lest I find myself having to use someone elses' computer.

It takes a few minutes for the wires to switch over - but it's totally possible to retain one's ability to type in either layout. For those wanting to try a new layout but are scared of forgetting the original - just make sure to practice in both!

E: Since another user below also mentioned the context switching being difficult for a year - my context switching takes about 5~8 minutes and I've been using Colemak for about 2-3 years. I use Colemak while at home and Qwerty while in the office. So I spend roughly equal amounts of time in both. It doesn't seem to matter how much time I've spent "not typing" between the context switch. Colemak at 8pm at night, Qwerty at 8am the next day? Still need a few minutes before the brain swaps over. It's a little weird but I've grown accustomed to the "warmup period" I guess, but I know a few people who don't seem to have this problem at all.

[wink]

Really interesting. It's much less difference, but I use QWERTZ at home and QWERTY on my laptops, and I don't have context switching period, but it's tied to the laptop. I don't even have to think about it - when I use my Logitech keyboard I write with the German layout and on Lenovo keyboards I write with us-intl. It's not a problem - unless someone gives me a Lenovo with QWERTZ - then I mistype everything. I can only imagine how much worse it would be with dvorak or colemak...

[Nadya]

I use the same keyboard at work and at home - a DAS Model S with unmarked keycaps. Maybe that contributes to the brain confusion - but I like the keyboard too much to try and type using two different keyboards.

[hajile]

Same here. Colmak allows me to to type at higher speeds for longer without pain.

I carry a mechanical keyboard with dipswitches that allow me to use colmak on other people's machines without much trouble (as a bonus, mechanical keyboard generally nicer than their keyboard too).

[jgalentine007]

Which keyboard out of curiosity?

[hajile]

Vortex Pok3r. It's a 60% keyboard which is a nice compromise for travel IMO. You still have programmable layers, but don't have to reach for them when doing basic programming tasks. 4 dipswitches at the bottom allow you to switch to colmak or dvorak in hardware, so no messing up the host system settings.

[jgalentine007]

Cool, I almost got the same one but went with a leopold 660m, also 60%. I just have caps lock mapped to backspace and use vim for everything I can (checkout cVim for chrome) tried colmak out today but will stick with qwerty since I'm 100% at 100 wpm touch typing.

[brennebeck]

I just looked at cVim and it’s definitely interesting. I’m currently a user of Vimium. Have you tried both, by chance? Curious about a comparison

[jgalentine007]

Vimium didn't work consistently when I tried it, where cVim did. I used to use VimFx on Firefox but it was abandoned. I like the way cVim does its follow tooltips.

[brennebeck]

Actually, I just installed cVim to test and went through the docs. Very nice work. The config setup alone... anyway, Thank you! Appreciate the recommendation gp!

[raihansaputra]

Some off the shelf 60% keyboards have this, the one I remember is Poker 2/Pok3r Keyboards.

[bjoli]

I'd say that you should use whatever floats your boat. For me Colemak never stopped feeling weird, despite having spent a lot of time playing around with keyboard layouts.

Another thing people should try, at least if they are at a workstation is pedals. Back when I was still using evil (an Emacs mode for emulating vim) I tried a pedal that switched to normal mode for every other mode or switched to Insert mode from normal mode.

Together with a properly set up abbrev mode that has saved me more typing than anything else combined.

[singularity2001]

If you worry about RSI, use speech recognition whenever you write emails or comments. There is even a trick to use it on Linux if you're interested (not the crappy sphinx/kaldi).

[aiilnns]

> there is even a trick to use it on Linux (not the crappy sphinx/kaldi)

What do you mean? What are you using?

[singularity2001]

android tts to linux trick

[dudzik]

What is your experience when you have to use the QWERTY layout? Is it a frustrating experience or can you use it just fine given that Colemak is more similar to it than Dvorak?

[jamesg]

At this point I'm pretty terrible at QWERTY on a physical keyboard. I'm fine with it on phones and tablets for some reason, but my brain is pretty hard-wired for Colemak on physical keyboards at this point. I also use a Kinesis Advantage keyboard which adds to the context switch when I have to use a different computer (though this is less significant for sure).

If it's a Mac, Colemak is one of the pre-installed layouts, so if I need to work on someone else's computer I'll just enable it while I work on it and remove it afterwards. Otherwise I can manage, but it does slow me down quite a bit, and I'll have to look down at my hands pretty frequently. You immediately notice the extra workload though: Colemak is pretty low effort, but QWERTY just feels like finger moshing to me now.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to remain proficient in both, but QWERTY was sufficiently destructive to my hands that I use it as little as possible.

[drham]

I use colemak as well. I find it way more rare than you might think that you have to type in QWERTY. There are probably couple of times a year I need to, and I can always get away with some quick hunt n' peck in those rare cases.

[lgunsch]

I've used Colemak for 5 years now. I've always just hobbled along with Qwerty, not pecking, but not really touch typing.

However, I rarely need to use Qwerty. It's less than once per week. The only times are when I'm in the UEFI settings on my laptop, or fixing my wife's computer. Any other time I have my own user, and can switch the layout to what I like.

[kraftman]

I think it probably depends on if you have a separate keyboard or not. I have an ergodox on my home pc and work laptop, but my laptop is qwerty. I don't even notice moving between keyboards, I guess because they are so different.

Having an external keyboard also means that other people can still use my work laptop when needed (pairing etc)