Ask HN: Does anyone do academic writing in their own time?

[r0rbit]

It has been a few years since I got my masters degree, and I never had the ambition for an academic career. Pursuing a tech one at the moment. Still miss writing about topics that interest me. Is there anyone here who incorporates (academic) writing with a non-academic career? How do you manage?

[hannob]

I don't pursue an academic career, I'm a freelancer doing various things, yet I published two cryptographic papers in recent years (at real scientific conferences, one at USENIX Security, other at USENIX WOOT). In one case it was even financially viable due to bug bounties.

https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentat... https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/woot16/woot16...

[dahart]

I’ve written a few academic papers on my own time after grad school. It wasn’t much harder than writing papers while in school, it just took some nights & weekends time, and I had to work a little to find people willing and capable of reviewing the papers and giving feedback. It cost a bit of personal money to present at a conference whenever a paper was accepted, but it was what I wanted to do so it never bothered me.

I’m not sure I understand the question though, what seems like the hardest part of writing, what is stopping you from doing it now? Lots and lots of people write in their spare time, and there are plenty who write on academic topics and submit papers to journals and conferences. Is it finding the time, or doing the research? Being motivated, or fear about being accepted as an academic while not part of an academic institution?

FWIW, you can certainly research & write on academic topics without trying to publish in journals. Plenty of people have blogs with articles that could be journal papers if they had only a splash of formality. Lots of people are more interested in doing the reading & writing than they are in publishing. Quite a few people like that here on HN.

[r0rbit]

I think what seems to be the hardest part is to not only find the time but combat the imposter syndrome of not producing research within an academic context/with supervision. Also, reduced access to scientific databases is a bit of a turndown, we used to get it at uni.

Not all that interested in publishing in academic journals persé.

[borroka]

Writing scientific papers for decent journals is time-consuming. You need to write your findings in the context of the scientific discipline, previous results, be formal in the context of the discipline, write decently well and, most of all, have novel and interesting results to show.

As for databased or access to journals, luckily there is SciHub.

[dahart]

Access to journals is a good point. I’ve had some access through jobs, and some access through alumni accounts. You might check with your alma mater whether you have alumni access to their databases. Sometimes a proxy into the school’s network is sufficient, via an account into your old department. I would also sometimes ask academic friends to grab copies of papers I needed.

[AnimalMuppet]

You are you. You are not the name of the organization where you spend your time. If your research is good, it's good whether or not you did it in an academic setting.

The supervision might actually matter. But you might be able to get some. Pick the best of your former professors. Drop them an email, giving your approach. Ask if they see any red flags. If they say yes, listen.

[chrisseaton]

I don't, but if you are interested in doing this then you should definitely give it a go.

Beside actually doing good research in the first place, there should not be major barriers to writing and publishing a paper and I don't think there is the kind of gatekeeping that people think there is. Pick a small conference or workshop to start with, read a few papers from previous years to understand the format, style and conventions of the medium, and then you just write and upload your paper by the deadline. There's no more ceremony or secrets than that compared to writing a good technical blog post.

Of course, your research has to be good in the first place. I've seen people try to write papers and get them knocked back and they think it's because they're outsider, when in reality they didn't actually have a research contribution in the first place.

[borroka]

There is certainly gate-keeping at decent journals. For instance, not having an affiliation with an institution or a company known to carry out research is not the best presentation you can make.

[chrisseaton]

But reviewers will not know who you are affiliated with until reviewing is done and the paper is accepted.

[borroka]

Very few journals do double-blind reviews. Maybe some conferences in CS, but in my field (biology) I never reviewed a paper without knowing who the authors were, along with their affiliation.

[chriskanan]

Double blind reviewing is mostly just a computer science conference thing. Very few journals do it.

[phonebucket]

I am a former academic now working in tech. In the past year I have missed research.

I don't have the time or patience to go through the whole peer-review process in my spare time. Furthermore, some aspects of peer-reviewed scientific writing are quite boring to me e.g. introductions, trying to sell the importance of your results.

Instead, I find that I can scratch my research itch by doing what I want, then uploading the results to GitHub. So far I've re-implemented a couple of recently published papers, and put in a modest contribution of my own. If you want some discussion on your work, you can turn to a pertinent online forum.

Apart from being much faster than writing a full paper, another advantage is transparency and reproducibility. It has become a fulfilling hobby.

[siscia]

What is your field? Can you link some of your work?

I could be interested in helping with the "academic writing"...

[r0rbit]

This sounds like an amazing way to go!

[irchans]

I have coauthored about 20 articles over the last 25 years, mostly in peer reviewed mathematics journals.

I published the first three while in grad school. After grad school, my advisor and I just kept collaborating meeting once a week for an hour or two. I was never paid to do academic research, it has always been a hobby for me. I have only published one article where I was the sole author.

[borroka]

I switched to tech one year ago after more than * years in academia (biology). I am still publishing, mostly papers that were half-completed or going through the peer-review process. I enjoy writing in general and I also enjoy writing research papers, but the peer-review process is largely dreadful and it is difficult to justify spending considerable time doing something that I have already done for years, I moved away from, and that won't further my career.

I published more than 50 papers, some in top journals, and most of them as the first author; I still find frustrating that companies (recruiters, hiring managers, peers) don't associate that kind of production and its determinants (scientific skills, coding, writing, persistence) to proxies of potential added value to the company.

Edit: 10

2nd Edit: changed "manuscripts" to "papers"

[wodenokoto]

What is the difference between a manuscript and an article?

[borroka]

In my field, they are called either manuscripts or papers, rarely articles.

[p1esk]

In my mind 'manuscript' is a book length publication, while 'paper' is a standard short publication for journals or conferences.

[borroka]

The book-length publication would a book or monograph if shorter. "Article" would be in my mind for non-peer-reviewed outlets. I typically use "manuscript" for papers that have yet to be published. -- I edit the above and I write "papers" instead of "manuscripts" to avoid confusion.

[p1esk]

Oh yes, I confused 'manuscript' and 'monograph'. I agree with your clarification.

[philipov]

More than how many years?

[borroka]

Sorry, more than 10 years - now edited.

[gvurrdon]

My SO works in a library but does academic research in her own time. It's difficult to find the time, but writing papers during evenings/weekends and, where possible, presenting them at conferences has resulted in some degree of success e.g. a published book, invitations to participate in editing/reviewing. Getting a full-time academic post is difficult, though, as there is a lot of competition for the few in the field that come up.

[borroka]

I would recommend an academic career, especially at a minor institution, only to some of my worst enemies. Poor pay, bureaucracy, days and nights grading, boredom. Yes, you might spend your career investigating something you are interested in, but there is also something in variety.

[gvurrdon]

Unfortunately, the library job is much along those lines as well, so a job concentrating on her preferred subject would still be an improvement.

[RobertRoberts]

I study every day on my career, and consider it an academic exercise to read tech blogs on coding, design, server admin, etc... and I sometimes write about these topics to inform my clients. I kill 3 birds with one stone. I learn, I get to dive into topics deep that benefit my mind, and my work (doubly satisfying) and educate my clients. It lowers my stress when my research provides a very real world solution. (These are really good days)

When I write about my understanding for my clients it is sort of like training and marketing at the same time. It forces me to know my subject better to make sure I am giving good advice to my clients. This is not documentation, I keep that separate. But I am finding more Digital Ocean articles the cross this boundry between mere documentation and useful teaching/tutorials.

So it feels like a natural fit, I am interested in research and writing and others need what I know to do better at their work/business.

But, I have other personal topics I research and write about (history, religion, health, etc...) that is not work related, but I keep them separate from work complete, keeps stress low. But I do use tech skills to help me with them. (ie, data scrapers and manipulation, graphs, analysis, apps, database access and APIs, etc...) But this relationship is one way, "work -> personal research", almost never "personal research -> work", unless it's purely a side effect of knowledge gained...

These personal writings are more critical, some extensive (many years of research, writing and editing) and I have a family and decent social life. I just don't have real hobbies or too many time wasting activities, and I keep my personal research separate from my work research. I guess it's all priorities?

[p1esk]

I believe "academic writing" usually refers to original research. One notable exception is a survey of recent advances in the field.

[borroka]

Reviews also have to present original results often in the form of novel syntheses, not just she did this, then he did that.

[RobertRoberts]

Well, I am amateur academic, and my research is all original, felt it was worth sharing.

[qazitory]

I do this. For me it's fairly easy as I left academia and simply carried on working with former colleagues/acquaintances, in my spare time. My contribution as a %age of the overall workload has dropped, but is still meaningful.

Obvious caveats are:

* In some areas such as CS, you'll want to publish at a conference. If you submit a paper, one named author will have to agree to present it. If that has to be you, you'll have to pay the travel and registration cost for the conference.

* IP / ownership issues are big, particularly if you work for a BigCorp in a field close to that you are publishing in --- these tend to be pretty inflexible on this. I found it difficult, but not impossible at the BigCorp I worked for. I'm in a small consultancy now, and it's a breeze.

[jphoward]

In the field of medicine this is standard, at least in the UK. Many medical specialties expect you to have a PhD to get a good senior post in a teaching hospital. To get a good PhD grant you are expected to have a pedigree of publishing research, and the classic way to do that is join a research group on your days off/evenings/weekends.

I’m lucky enough to be on a good PhD programme so my 9-5 is now academia, but in my late 20s a typical weekend and weeknight would involve a couple of hours of academic writing which I would be doing “for free”. I’d be first or second author on the papers, but I’d be publishing under the institution of the group I’d tagged on to.

[r0rbit]

I like the idea of a research group. I did not know that the field of medicine this was a standard practice. Was it not too overwhelming?

[jaq]

Thank you for this question. I have been struggling with a deadline for my dissertation for personal reasons and feel like giving up on the whole thing. It is unlikely that if I give up on my deadline that I will return to do more academic work. However, I enjoy researching and want to continue to research and write. Just a few days ago I asked my husband if he thought it was reasonable to ignore the deadline and just continue writing my dissertation for myself. He sent me a link to your question today. :)

[r0rbit]

Amazing :). Keep on going, especially for yourself.

[chaoxu]

I still publish. I joined an industry lab this June. My day to day function is highly non-academic, but we can do academic research on the side (we don't have to).

I intend to keep on researching since research is fun. But writing itself is not as much fun, so I wonder if I will try to publish as much.

1. Collaboration. If you look at my publication records, I only have a single paper where I am the sole author, and I made sure a few very knowledgeable friends read it. So find someone sharing similar interests and talk to them. Once a collaboration starts, it is much easier to get going.

2. Branch out. Recently, I improve algorithms in areas (more applied operations research) close to mine (theoretical x {computer science, combinatorial optimization}). This includes 3 of the papers I'm preparing. It only took a few hours to realize improvements are possible, although it takes much longer to polish and present. It also leads me to an interesting problem in my own field.

3. Giving talks. It is probably much easier to have an opportunity to give tech talks. Giving the talk itself forces you to organize your thought well. I often find better ways to organize my writing after I've given the presentation. (I really should give talks before writing the paper...

[Tharkun]

Possibly slightly off topic: not ever having been in academia, how would one go about "writing a paper"? I assume you start off by researching something interesting and jotting down your results, but I'm guessing there's a little more to it than that. Are there any resources that could help one get started with this?

[sjg007]

Yes, you would also read some research papers relevant to your work and cite them in your paper. So typically intro, hypothesis, experiments, results, conclusions/next steps.

[p1esk]

You just read other papers, find the ones you like, then try writing something similar in novelty, usefulness, layout and style.

[hef19898]

I did my Masters part-time and really struggled with the writing part, to the point I took a 7 months sabbatical to finish my thesis. Thus was not just due to my full-time work but also family, commuting and other things you do. But I do get why you are missing the research part because it is fun! Hope you find a way doing both!

[bhritchie]

I dropped out of a PhD in philosophy and am now a software developer. Tinkering with some of my old papers is my main hobby these days. I also have little kids, so I don't get a lot of time for it, but I'm hoping to have at least one significant item ready for publication in the next year or so.

[efficax]

I'm also an ABD PhD in Philosophy (the clock on that is almost 4 years old now so there's little chance of me actually writing a thesis at this point) turned software developer. We failed philosophers turned hackers should form a little society or something

[efficax]

You might be interested in the resources available via the National Coalition of Independent Scholars: https://www.ncis.org/national-coalition-independent-scholars...

[realandreskytt]

I’ve done a conference paper and had another one accepted. For me, the hardest is finding good places to publish. Conference levels fluctuate and magazines carry different weight - this is not necessarily obvious for a bystander.

[tincholio]

I do. I was in academia for over 15 years, and exited almost 2 years ago. Since then I've published quite a few papers, and stayed active in conference organization / journal editorial activities. Lately, I've slowed down notoriously, I'm busy enough with my day job.

I think it helps if you have a good group of people to work with, since it motivates you, and you get good feedback (also helpful if they're still in academia and can easily register/attend conferences and/or pay open access fees).

[r0rbit]

Why did you decide to exit academia?

[tincholio]

Death by a thousand paper cuts. Bad management making bad decisions, funding getting harder and harder to get, pressure to do contract research (I was at a large public research institute, not at a uni)... Things were going downhill quickly and seemingly irreversibly, so I was no longer happy there, and there were no good alternatives in research where I live.

[r0rbit]

Sounds rough :(

[tincholio]

It was... but if you do care about science, you can still do it :)

[siscia]

In what area you are interested in?

I guess we could create a small "research group"... I would join and give my contribute.

[r0rbit]

I'm thinking about expanding on the ideas of Nicholas Nassim Taleb. For instance the concept of anti-fragility.

My academic background is in information studies but I'm not married to the field.

[irchans]

That seems really cool!

[DrNuke]

If you work in tech at a level high enough, then conferences, white papers, technical reports and so on are part and parcel of the job. All these generally coalesce into 1-2 academic-like papers per year for important journals in your field.

[borroka]

Working for a tech company that does research and at a level that is high enough is no small feat.

[DrNuke]

Ok but academic writing serves a purpose, it is the consequence of an intellectual effort at a level high enough for peer review and actual progress; you can even do it alone if minded and disciplined enough to bear the stress, maybe starting from conferences in your field to test waters while honing your skills. It is not a given that comes with a degree, though, so a gentle nudge is not enough.

[qualsiasi]

I always wondered how you can submit your work for approval and publishing from outside the academic life. Are there conferences that accept submissions from someone who is totally unknown?

[therobot24]

no interest in pursuing an academic career

while working on my phd my focus was on biometrics where i had a few publications, but moved onto robotics/autonomy so it took a bit to ramp up in the domain, but after a few years i'm close to where i was and just submitted 3 papers to ICRA last week

to echo other comments here, there's no way i'd have any output if i wasn't working with others on these papers