Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by LitFan 2839 days ago
Why is this downvoted? The only way to make this change is for people to boycott the service.
1 comments

I'm not even sure why people work there. The warehouses are universally known to be shitty places but people sign up anyway.

Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics?

You're not misunderstanding anything, the problem is there's really nothing true about the anti-Amazon media propaganda. It's important to separate the media fantasy from the facts in the real world.

In the media fantasy:

1. Amazon workers are so desperate for jobs they have no choice but to work for Amazon under prison-like conditions.

2. Amazon warehouse jobs are targeted at "left behind" workers who have no other options.

3. Amazon doesn't pay a living wage. Bezos' luxurious lifestyle is subsidized by taxpayer dollars.

In the real world:

1. US unemployment is so low right now that even employers of unskilled labor are looking at severe shortages. See the severe labor shortage in retail but also the real wage pressure across the board.

2. Amazon warehouse jobs are highly sought after. Amazon is unusually generous towards its warehouse associates offering them full benefits including healthcare, retirement, and even equity. Many investors really, really want Amazon to offer benefits comparable to their warehouse competitors (ie no benefits) but Bezos refuses to cut benefits for his unskilled employees every year.

3. America's minimum wage is criminally low but even still Amazon pays well above the minimum wage.

All of this obvious to anybody who does even a tiny bit of research [1] but it's not obvious to people who want to be deceived and so they buy into this baseless narrative.

Again, this is not about Amazon, or even about workers, this is about a media-political complex in which there is zero accountability. Like most things, from Iraq to China to basic scientific theories like climate change, you'll have to learn to separate the American media-political narrative (which is a fantasy that exists only to justify extreme inequality and the mass-murder of foreign brown people) from the actual facts in the real world.

[1] https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/08/08/amazon-benefit...

Thank you for your post, a really different and interesting perspective. I can already tell it won't go down well on this board though.
> You're not misunderstanding anything, the problem is there's really nothing true about the anti-Amazon media propaganda. It's important to separate the media fantasy from the facts in the real world.

I've hear several conflicting reports on this - enough to understand that there is some variation and Amazon doesn't treat all workers the same way. That's why when one person reports inhuman behavior and another calls it bullshit, they're both right.

A lot of people don't have other options so they take whatever they can get in order to survive. Why don't victims of domestic abuse leave immediately but stay for years?
> A lot of people don't have other options so they take whatever they can get in order to survive. Why don't victims of domestic abuse leave immediately but stay for years?

If Amazon is offering the very best jobs available to those workers, and Amazon actually complies with all laws and regulations, then I fail to see how is Amazon responsible for the worker's problems. It seems to me that the problem lies elsewhere, like how a regional economy managed to get so depressed to the point that no alternative job is available.

If the only job that's availanle to you is working in a sweatshop, does shutting the sweatshop down fixes anything?

What is legal is not equal to what is moral. If you force Amazon to pay some decent wages all across the country they would have to comply, and, as the result won't be able to shutdown the facilities in the depressed areas. Because they need the facilities to run their business, duh.
> Why don't victims of domestic abuse leave immediately but stay for years?

Yeah never understood that one either if i'm honest.

When Kanye West publicly wondered if slaves in the United States made a "choice" to stay in slavery for hundreds of years, he was rightly mocked for being a moron.

It's pretty depressing to see the same lack of empathy and critical thinking on hn.

Maybe it would be good to try to understand the reasons behind this. You may not agree but you may learn that the advice "if they don't like it they can just go somewhere else" is not useful.
Wow. Domestic abuse survivors stay because they don’t have any other options?

No.

Abusers create an environment of fear where abused believe they have no choices. They separate people from their friends so they think no one cares about them. They convince their victim that no one else will want them.

They create an artificial sense that there is no way out. It’s absolutely not the case that abused people are abused because they have no other option.

Promoting the idea these people have no choices plays right into the abusers plans.

They will hire anyone. That’s why. If you need a job and you will show up on time all the time and perform to the standard they ask you’ll keep the job too. It’s a crap job but for a lot of people it beats being unemployed.
But I was told we have zero percent unemployment. /s
> Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics?

Your mistake was assuming that this is something that could be understood solely with "basic economics."

"Basic economics" is a horribly limited intellectual tool-set that will mislead you if you rely on it too heavily.

I wouldn't give too much credit to the advanced economics tool set either given the welter of failed predictions made from on high over the years.
You're making a lot of assumptions, mainly that people have perfect mobility about where they work, and perfect information about what they're getting into.