[umvi]

It makes me very angry when "they" (I'm not even sure who "they" are or what their motives are) go around policing random software projects for political correctness compliance, bullying/mobbing the maintainers if they don't comply, etc. These people even go after your project if one of your maintainers is deemed politically incorrect outside of the scope of the project (i.e. on Twitter) and demand they be kicked out.

I miss the days when politics and political correctness didn't directly affect software projects. What do these political police stand to gain from all of this?

[smsm42]

> What do these political police stand to gain from all of this?

A warm fuzzy feeling of seemingly contributing to the Forces of Good and fighting the Forces of Evil. Some launch rockets to the Moon, some create beautiful art, some create awesome software. Some instead bully people to not use certain words. The consider it their contribution to the society. Unfortunately, as more and more people fold to their pressure, this serves as confirmation that this contribution is worthwhile and there's more to come. If you write a symphony and it is applauded, you want to write another one. If you speech-police one project and it works, you want to speech-police another one.

[master-litty]

It's creating a culture that is welcoming to more individuals, regardless of sex, race, and background.

It's not bullying. In fact, I'd say active code maintainers who receive these requests and don't _reasonably_ accommodate them are the real bullies.

[smsm42]

> It's creating a culture that is welcoming to more individuals

Somehow I feel less welcome in a culture where there are lots of people vigilantly seeking offense where none ever was and waiting to pounce on the use of every word they can find any reason, real or imaginary, to feel slighted with. In fact, I feel a strong desire to not touch such a culture with a ten foot pole. I am glad to contribute my time and my effort to open source (and I regularly do), but I would not want to be a target of hate mob trying to ruin my life or argue with concern trolls, that's just not how I want to spend my life.

> It's not bullying

You do what they want, or they'll hurt you and your project. How it's not bullying?

> In fact, I'd say active code maintainers who receive these requests and don't _reasonably_ accommodate them are the real bullies.

You may say whatever you want, but you will be wrong. Actual bullies are those who try to force people to behave to their liking with threats and hurt. No amount of redefining terms will change that. If you threaten to hurt someone in any way - virtually or physically - over some words that they say or don't say to your liking - you are a bully. It's not hard to see.

[lanyard-textile]

This is extreme and very, very far beyond the scope of what I was attempting to discuss.

That's a lot different than simply submitting a PR to change "man" to "person" -- If there's actual physical threats occurring on a regular basis within our communities I'm severely uninformed. No argument, it's bullying and it's wrong.

I suppose in that case, I advocate the underlying message but not its conveyance.

[malvosenior]

Creating and maintaining an open source project is an act of generosity. Making demands on open source maintainers and "shaming" them into political actions in no way creates a welcoming culture, quite the contrary.

If you don't like the code, fork it if you must but don't harass the creator of the thing you get to use for free.

[lanyard-textile]

I believe I'm misinformed about what's happening lately, I'm not advocating for political action or anything of that nature. Just supporting the underlying message.

[JoshTriplett]

> I miss the days when politics and political correctness didn't directly affect software projects.

They've always affected software projects, they just haven't affected you.

> What do these political police stand to gain from all of this?

Making other people feel as welcome in software as you've already been by default.

[scrollaway]

> they just haven't affected you.

Not OP but it's extremely pretentious to assume that.

More generally, assuming that "people against changes (that you personally think are positive towards minorities)" are not part of said minorities tends to be as incorrect as assuming that the people in favor of those changes are part of them.

Furthermore, just because the term "minority" implies that there is a minority of people in that group, there are many minorities which together form far larger groups. So "encountering a minority" isn't uncommon. And I've seen on multiple occasions horribly-arrogant people addressing some of my white male friends, claiming they're oblivious to "the plight of minorities", all because said friends didn't come forward to explain they're gay.

So all that to say, don't assume the person you're replying to hasn't been affected by those things. Even if you're correct, it's not a correct nor even safe thing to assume.

> Making other people feel as welcome in software as you've already been by default.

If you're only superficially aware of the issues involved, it's easy to think that superficial changes will suddenly improve things. It's also all too easy to ignore the fallout of those changes.

Reminds me of PETA's philosophy towards animals: If they can't be free, then they're better off dead. Ignoring that PETA:

1. Isn't objectively correct / morally right

2. Harms the greater cause with their methods (by harming public perception)

In general, not being tactful is a terrible idea. Forcing changes through is a terrible idea. Bullying people is a terrible idea. And if you think these tactics are worth it to "make people feel more welcome", I don't know you.

[JoshTriplett]

I responded to a comment pining for the days of politics not affecting software, by pointing out that software development always has been. I'm not commenting on any particular changes here, I'm commenting on the position of "I don't want to think about politics" being a position that biases in favor of the status quo.

Apart from that, I'm not suggesting that people should ignore normal contribution procedures and conventions when making such contributions. Nothing in my comment is endorsing ever single person who has ever made such a contribution, regardless of the approach they took. I am, however, suggesting that maintainers who refuse such contributions (for reasons like "I don't want to do this" rather than "this change has issues, please address them") are part of the problem.

[singingboyo]

Not the above poster, but, alas, given some of the behaviour I've seen, I'd no longer be particularly inclined to be welcoming. In some sense, a broad, offensive filter is better than doing it manually. Who cares if it reduces user count or whatever - it makes my life easier.

Perhaps it's a "good" thing I haven't created any major OSS projects...

[OtterCoder]

No, they're making themselves feel righteous, at very little gain to the minorities they're ostensibly protecting. I'm Slavic. The name for my ethnicity literally means, and is the root of the word slave. Shouldn't I have more say than anyone how my ethnic identity as a slave gets bandied about? I say the master/slave terminology is effective, evocative, and useful.

[Aloha]

I've come to believe its a mix of virtue signalling (public, empty gestures intended to convey socially approved attitude without any associated risk or sacrifice.) and pat-yourself-on-the-back slacktavism (there, I tweeted about what people perceive to be a problem, therefor I've done my part).

In essence, they get to tell themselves (mostly convincingly so) that they have contributed to reduce inequality and discrimination, and are helping right a historical wrong.

In the end, I dont think it changes things one wit - but it makes people feel better, so I guess its a net good over time - albeit an unconscionably silly one.

[bovermyer]

Since time immemorial, some people have gotten outraged over what others consider to be ridiculous or trivial things. That hasn't changed.

The only thing that has changed is that social media and the Internet in general have made it much easier to organize.

Software projects have always been plagued by humans arguing with each other.