[peterwwillis]

We develop drugs and medical practices to artificially extend our lives. We build gigantic civilizations and trade goods around the globe. We take the coffee beans from a farmer in a poor nation undergoing drought, pay that farmer between $0.07-$0.50 per kilo of coffee, and then sell that kilo in a coffee shop (after roasting and brewing) for about $70.

We aren't natural. We don't need natural evolutionary states. We need unnatural, human-oriented, ethical states.

[throwaway8879]

None of that is my responsibility. I'm not obligated to help anyone but myself. Nobody asked me for consent before flinging me into existence, and now I have to follow all these rules that people make up?

I don't need "unnatural, human-oriented, ethical states". I'm perfectly happy with a state where I can acquire as many resources as possible, even if that incurs a significant cost to others.

[peterwwillis]

That's cool, you can do whatever you want, but you may want to re-think that plan. If you study history you'll find loads of examples of both individuals and civilizations that fell because they acted in a way that caused a significant cost to others without thinking of the consequences.

Assuming the natural resources you might want to exploit are living beings, you have to maintain an equilibrium in the environment or you can get resource starvation, which then impacts you directly, either as increased costs or an end to the goods entirely. You can easily see this in things like elephant/rhino poaching, where the unregulated demand will eventually result in no more supply at all. Even slavery requires considering the costs of maintaining the slaves, as if the slaves deteriorate, they won't be as productive, and it will cost you more to acquire new ones. Or if you attempt to take over some new lands, but your diseases wipe out the native population, now you don't have the natives to use as slaves anymore.

In respect to the American economy today, inequality and exploitation can lead to several problems. 1) Lack of skilled workers, 2) ballooning health care prices and increased taxes, 3) political unrest leading to trade problems, not to mention limited business growth, 4) overthrow of government, 5) state taking over commercial entities, 6) economic collapse , 7) massive refugee crisis. Oh wait, that's Venezuela. For us it's just the first few.

No matter what, you will eventually have to consider the costs to others if you want to acquire unlimited resources.

[bulditand]

I've read your posts in this thread and I realize you won't get it even a hundred people explain it to you.

I only hope you won't meet some day a man who wants to "acquire as many resources as possible, even if that incurs a significant cost to others" on a dark alley.

[captain_mars]

> I'm perfectly happy with a state where I can acquire as many resources as possible, even if that incurs a significant cost to others.

I'm not going to judge you on moral grounds. Instead, consider what would happen if everyone lived like that. What kind of world would we have? I think it would be a hellish dog-eat-dog world.

You may believe that the world is already that way, but at the moment, there is a lot of kindness, compassion and consideration too. Instead of that, if everyone had the attitude of "I got mine, f* you", the world would be unimaginably worse than it is now.

Moreover, that kind of living is unsustainable in the long run. If you collect as many resources as possible to the detriment of others, sooner or later others would try to snatch those back from you, even by violence.

[lr4444lr]

Don't you have any fear at all of suffering SOME sort of catastrophe - or someone in your family suffering one - that's too big for your resources to manage?

[vertex-four]

Would I be incorrect in saying you don’t feel empathy very often?

[throwaway8879]

No, you'd be correct.

[vertex-four]

I’m sorry to hear that. I’m sure you’re aware, but for most people that isn’t really the case. I hope that you can access help in the event that you need it to understand and deal with the society you’re part of.

[Rapzid]

Yes, you have to follow all these rules people make up.

[throwaway8879]

I don't have to, but society at great can attempt to make me. There are many ways around this.

[mcv]

You kinda do, because that's what society is: rules made up to enable people to live together.

If you don't want to follow anyone's rules but your own, I recommend living completely on your own in the wilderness, off the grid and all that. Only then are you responsible only for yourself.