[sandworm101]

Then it isnt engineering work. Engineers are professionals, acredited by societies and licensed by governments. It is akin to the differance between simple "medical work" done by any number of people with the skills, and medical doctoring.

[pandler]

In the US, there’s a difference between a professional Engineer and a Professional Engineer. Professional Engineer requires certification (I think they even give you a ring or something), but you can still work professionally as an Engineer without the certification.

The difference, roughly, if I remember correctly, is that Professional Engineers are the only ones who can “sign off” on work and essentially assume liability. Therefore, you can be an uncertified Engineer as long as you’re working under someone certified or if your work doesn’t require sign-off from someone certified.

Are there any PE’s here that can tell me if that’s correct?

[craftyguy]

Reminds me of this lawsuit, where an engineer was sued by Oregon for criticizing traffic infrastructure (a red light camera) and calling himself an engineer:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/0...

[jjeaff]

So if you are doing the same work, maybe even better than a Professional Engineer, they are doing engineering work, and you are just... twiddling your thumbs?

[sandworm101]

That might be "engineering work" but it isn't the type of work that legally requires a P.Eng (or P.Eng supervision). I can have my assistant to draft a memo, even interview a client, that doesn't make him a lawyer. And he certainly isn't allowed to hold himself out as such to the public.

[thx4allthestuff]

Someone should go back in time to inform DaVinci to make sure he refrains from all of that not-engineering work.

It’s easy for people to forget that the engineering came first. The students came after. You can argue the point all day, but it will always come down to one person figuring shit out by themselves.

[creatornator]

This isn't true at all. Most engineers never get a PE. It's not worth it unless you are working on public works projects or civil engineering things. It's very reductive to say that work isn't engineering unless you have a PE.

[Bahamut]

That is not the definition of an engineer. See Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer

[sandworm101]

It is the definition of a professional. Engineering is a recognized profession, alongside doctors and lawyers. It fought to be there. Work needing an engineer cannot be done by anyone who isnt. Companies should not muddle the distinctions between those legally able to do such work and those who may not.

From wikipedia:

"In many countries, engineering tasks such as the design of bridges, electric power plants, industrial equipment, machine design and chemical plants, must be approved by a licensed professional engineer. Most commonly titled professional engineer"

"In the United States, engineering is a regulated profession whose practice and practitioners are licensed and governed by law. Licensure is generally attainable through combination of education, pre-examination (Fundamentals of Engineering exam), examination (professional engineering exam),[19] and engineering experience (typically in the area of 5+ years). Each state tests and licenses professional engineers."

[InitialLastName]

You're arguing this on a forum loaded with software developers, often without college degrees, more often without an "engineering" degree, all of whom are in jobs with "engineer" in the title.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you might be fighting collective delusion in the wrong place.

[hak8or]

The word engineer is a protected title in the USA, sure, but it's only relevant when dealing with the gov't. I and many others have the word engineer in their official job title, but both me and the company are fully aware I never took the PE exam.

On the other hand, if you claim you are an engineer to the usa gov't then yeah, that gets you in hot water. I also tend to avoid calling myself a software engineer specifically to avoid potential issues like that, but I do lost the full job title given to me by previous employers when asked and on my resume.

[jjeaff]

Engineering as a profession has some regulation and licensure in the US, but the word "engineer" is not protected. Someone can call themselves and engineer without legal trouble. Not so much if call yourself a doctor.

[Bahamut]

Did you even check the link? The Wikipedia article has a definition of a professional engineer right in there, and what you said did not agree with it at all.

[Kranar]

Hmm... I also read the link and what they said is spot on. Furthermore they even quoted part of the relevant section justifying their claim.

[Bahamut]

Not sure what you’re reading, but it said nothing about requiring a license - what the person said was very different than the definition cited. In fact, the obsession over the license part clearly misses the mark.

This is what the summary mentions as the only supporting evidence of any sort of credentialing:

“The foundational qualifications of an engineer typically include a 4-year bachelor's degree in an engineering discipline, or in some jurisdictions, a master's degree in an engineering discipline plus 4–6 years of peer-reviewed professional practice (culminating in a project report or thesis) and passage of engineering board examinations.”

Note that the word used is “typically” - this is very different than being a requirement. The definition of a professional engineer cited mentions no such credentialing required, speaking in broad terms of the characteristics & responsibilities of one, but no narrow hallmark of how one reaches the title.

The part he quoted is far from verifying his/her claim - just the opposite, it is evidence that he/she is misusing the term professional engineer and is not distinguishing from a licensed professional engineer from a professional engineer.

[vonmoltke]

The profession is regulated, but not all practitioners are licensed professional engineers. A licensed engineer needs to oversee, verify, and sign off on the work. It does not need to actually do the work. I worked for four years as an electrical engineer, but never even took the FE (then the EIT) or had any intention of gaining licensure.

[TheCoelacanth]

And even that oversight is only required in some circumstances, mainly when the project involves potential risks to public safety. Not every project needs to involve a PE.