[danjoc]

The article points out the issue with AC isn't energy/CO2, it's refrigerants.

>Second, air-conditioners use so-called “F gases” (such as hydrofluorocarbons, or HFCs) as refrigerants. When—as is common—the machines leak in use or on disposal, these gases escape, doing vast damage. HFCs trap between 1,000 and 9,000 times as much heat as the same amount of CO2, meaning they are much more potent causes of global warming. On this basis, Paul Hawken of Project Drawdown, a think-tank, calculates that improving air-conditioners could do more than anything else to reduce greenhouse gases.

[mindslight]

And yet "spray duster cans" are refrigerants sold to be purposely vented.

A while ago (back when Google worked) I stumbled upon a refrigerant hacking page that detailed DIY retrofitting of refrigeration equipment to use propane as the refrigerant instead. Obviously the flammability is a problem, but as standard refrigerants seem to be pressing towards the flammable-with-harmful-combustion-products direction, I wonder why the industry isn't reconsidering. It seems nicer to have a plain fireball rather than one which creates hydrofluoric acid.

[philipkglass]

Refrigerating and air conditioning equipment can use plain hydrocarbon refrigerants such as propane and isobutane. US approval is fairly recent -- less than 10 years ago -- as you can see in this EPA table:

https://www.epa.gov/snap/substitutes-residential-and-light-c...

I believe that products using these low-GWP, zero-ODP refrigerants are marketed using the term "Greenfreeze."

https://cleantechnica.com/2008/09/29/first-greenfreeze-clima...

[jabl]

Here in Europe (and I believe in many other parts of the world as well) propane and butane have been the standard refrigerant in domestic appliances for a couple of decades. I think the industry went straight to these when CFC's were banned.

Considering that your average refrigerator contains a quite modest amount of refrigerant, compared to all the other flammable stuff in your average apartment, it's not really any significant fire risk.

[gl00pp]

Wow I was in HVAC for 15 years and NEVER heard about 'greenfreeze' WOW.

Thanks for links!

[jabl]

> I wonder why the industry isn't reconsidering

For some depressing reading, see https://theintercept.com/2018/08/25/chemours-epa-coolant-ref...

[AngryData]

Ive heard of people using propane as a refrigerant over 30 years ago and it probably goes much farther back. Back in the day it was considered much less efficient, but of course those super effective old refrigerants it was compared to aren't sold anymore so it might not be far off.

[jabl]

> The article points out the issue with AC isn't energy/CO2, it's refrigerants.

Well, it's both.

There is great potential in so-called "natural refrigerants", primarily CO2, ammonia, propane, butane. They can be ~as efficient as the various F gases, without leaving nasty chemicals in the environment, and have pretty low GWP's (CO2 equivalent).