[tc7]

We sometimes hire mid/jr-level FE developers, which means we get _lots_ of bootcamp applicants.

It feels like the main goal of the bootcamp is to produce portfolios/resumes that make you indistinguishable on paper from developers that learned any other way.

Not necessarily bad, but the quality difference among bootcamp grads (from the same program!) is crazy. Some people understand the fundamentals of what they learned and continue to learn and expand their skills, but some are just copy/pasting code and debugging by typing random character combinations until something works. Both got through the bootcamp with identical group-project portfolios and class assignment personal websites and resumes.

We've recently started sending an at-home coding challenge to all jr. FE applicants, just to cut down on amount of time wasted if we bring them in and they don't know anything. This has worked okay so far.

I'm generally very cognizant of wasting peoples time, so I don't want to do this as a general rule for more experienced candidates. But for junior/first-job candidates, I'm not sure it should be as offensive. Do any of y'all see a reasonable distinction here?

[Sohcahtoa82]

Is a bootcamp grad much different than a university grad?

While in school, I read blogs claiming that the majority of CS grads can't code. I got the hint this may be true in one of my 3rd-year classes where we had to work in groups of 2 or 3 over the course of the semester to write a program that was essentially like an alpha version of SimCity. At the last day of class, we had to present our work. Half the groups didn't complete the project, and one group only had a blank window with a Help button that presented a wall of text. Then, during my senior project, in my group of six, two of them admitted to not knowing how to code, with one of them saying they didn't even want to code, they just became a CS major because they heard CS majors have low unemployment and good salaries.

I've digressed a bit, but...

When I finished my degree, I didn't have a software engineering internship under my belt, so I made sure to list personal projects on my resume. I think the presence of projects done on my own time for my own enjoyment and learning was a key factor in landing my first job.

So no, I don't think there's anything offensive about rejecting a candidate if a bootcamp is all they have to show.

[bradknowles]

I’ve worked with people who have MBAs but aren’t really developers or even devops types.

It’s interesting to see them get frustrated so easily and have a hard time plowing through problem after problem making small changes until they finally get to something that works.

Someone who has only done a boot camp hasn’t demonstrated that they can work on problems for weeks or months before they can see real progress.

Someone who has an actual degree from a legit university or college, has at least proven that they can spend months or even years working on something until they get their reward. They won’t necessarily be able to program their way out of a wet paper bag, but they have at least one advantage on people who only have the boot camp certificate.

[fatnoah]

I've been hiring people for a long time and have always been against coding challenges. That was possible when I was only looking for more senior roles or hiring junior roles at a startup or small company. I'd generally talk to anyone that didn't appear incompetent to HR during an initial screen.

Now that I'm hiring for multiple junior openings at a fairly well known public company, hundreds of resumes come in each week, and I added a code test is there to help weed out those who are tragically lacking in skill or effort. The test is about as simple as could be and I generally don't even look at the score. I do look at the code, however.

[ng12]

At a company I worked for we just blacklisted bootcamp grads. It wasn't worth sifting through the dregs to find the few with potential.

I would say a take-home test for bootcamp grads is the bare minimum.

[morgtheborg]

Offensive, interesting. Yes, I don't think it's offensive. I do think the attitude of "my time is worth more than yours" isn't one I particularly appreciate. When I was interviewing and got at-home coding challenges, I appreciated it when the assumption was I was going to get actual helpful feedback if I didn't pass to the next level. A solid code review, if you will.

At least then there's some sort of reciprocity in time.