[DoritoChef]

Posts like these really continue drive home the message of "Silicon Valley is just a shell of what it used to be. Only go there for the sake of relocation or with a job offer in hand." There's nothing left for the dreamers or hopefuls in SV who have nothing to run on but just that--hopes and dreams. It just makes so much more sense to take a pay cut and swing for the fences in Atlanta, Houston, Austin, or Phoenix. Hell, I'll still throw in Boston and Seattle because they're still THAT much cheaper than anywhere in SV.

[lovehashbrowns]

Austin is a great place to do this type of homerun attempt without experience. There are some nice start up jobs there, and the costs are way lower. I went from Austin - > sf and while I'm still in the career-building phase here in sf, it's not so desperate that I am living in a closet. So I was lucky that I came from Austin first with some experience already. But this is a really bad city to build something out of nothing. The costs are stupid, even when you see a rent like "only $1,200 a month!" it's likely that the deposit is ridiculous too. The transportation is great, but it depends on where you are in the city. I luckily get on the bus at the start of its route so I always get a seat, but if I was a few blocks down when the bus was already packed like sardines, I'd hate it.

Train is the same. You have to go out so far to be comfortable that your commute goes into the hours mark. SV is just insane for someone that doesn't already have an established career. I know I would have burned out already if I didn't have the experience from Austin already.

[jjjensen90]

Phoenix is a good option if you don't mind the summers. The salaries are very good for the cost of living (salaries seem to be increased because of the proximity to California, I even somewhat frequently see startup jobs in SV with lower salaries than an equivalent position in PHX with some negotiation). There is a good mix of startups, mid-sized companies, and juggernauts like Amazon, Amex, PayPal, GM, etc.

Importantly in my opinion, you can buy a nice house on middle class income in Phoenix still, or rent for very cheap, and the traffic is pretty good. You'll be car dependent in most cases but it is RADICALLY cheaper than Silicon Valley.

[mylons]

Boston isn't really cheaper than The Bay. Traffic is terrible, so commuting by car long distances is out, and living near your job is often just as expensive as The Bay.

[volkl48]

Can't really agree with that. There's still quite a few sanely priced neighborhoods with good transit access, and without huge crime issues. (Ex: Malden)

[mylons]

looking at what's available for under 800k in malden, and I don't really like the idea of living in a former retirement home.

[FLUX-YOU]

The weather in Atlanta, Houston, Austin, and Phoenix is brutally hot and/or humid and shows no sign of getting a cooler average.

It's difficult to do stuff outside when it's that hot, especially as you get older.

[mmt]

(True also for Los Angeles, though at least that has the Pacific Ocean)

This is the (not so?) subtle quality-of-life aspect that people seem to forget when mentioning other cities as alternatives.

The Bay Area isn't popular/expensive solely due to network effects. Climate and geography (nearness to ocean, mountains) make it comparitively more appealing than the alternatives, for a variety of ages and lifestyles.

[zzzzzzzza]

Austin is way nicer than Houston or Phoenix, not sure about Atlanta. Acutally Austin/San Antonio pretty much has the nicest weather in texas. I'm from fort worth and fort worth gets both hotter and colder than austin - climate wise it's the california of texas (austin also has comfortable levels of humidity unlike houston).