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by maybebad 2854 days ago
This is a throwaway account.

Tl;dr You are only a "baddie" if you know that your occupational role is complacently illegal, harmful to the consumer, and you choose to not doing anything about it (to quit or report, for instance). Otherwise, it is just a personal moral dilemma, with the ethical bar set by you, the individual employee.

Businesses often operate against the personal desires and ethics of their employees, but I have found this can be necessary for the success of the business. And it is fully in the right of that business to operate successfully, no matter how morally selfish it may seem.

1. I worked for a company that had a great consumer product that fulfilled a clever need. They mistreated employees and contractors alike, had a lot of turnover, but delivered the end product with great success and glowing consumer reviews. The company in this sense was the bad actor, but only toward those it relied upon to function. It replaced people that were unwilling to participate, and management never blinked an eye.

(Known equivalent: Amazon shipping centers. You love your 2-day prime shipping, and you won't boycott even considering the conditions of those that get you your plastic melon ballers. Amazon is doing fine). I eventually quit my position, told friends not to apply, and still watch the company succeed to this day.

2. I worked for a company that had great ideals, strong and morally devout leadership, and fulfilled a meaningful purpose. They accepted a government contract to which I was assigned that caused great moral turmoil among the other SV tech institutions it had contracted. The end product was effective, but also morally gray, in that the intended purpose protected American soldiers on the ground, but the eventual uses were undeniably dystopian. Employees revolted, but their objections were mostly bark and no bite.

(Known equivalent: Google and their recent attempts at government contracting. Google is doing fine, though not with government contracts. Likely, Google made a mistake in bowing to the complaints, considering the upset employees were focused mostly on "government" and not on the "advertising-surveillance" that funds their current paychecks. However, the success of Google is dependent on their ability to attract technical talent, which could have been impacted if they continued after the public backlash). The business may have succumbed to employees concerned about a certain aspect of their company, but likely maintained their "ethical" conscience, leading to a successful future through retention of talent.

3. I worked for a company that tricked consumers into investing in inferiority, but marketed itself in a way that investors, employees, and end users alike had no idea that they were participating in what was certainly a scam.

(Think Theranos, and their ability to promise a revolutionary product while delivering smoke. This is the most egregious case of being a "baddie," but it is likely that many employees truly believed the promises and their hard work would amount to something great). I left this company feeling the most like a "baddie," but mostly feeling embarrassed I had been tricked into drinking the kool-aid. While it was my most pronounced "baddie" moment, I can justify that once I learned I was the "baddie," I immediately responded with a letter of resignation.

The ultimate learnings for me, as an individual, from a perspective that others may not agree with, is that a business carries the ultimate right to operate for its own benefit. It does not have to consider the implications of "baddie" business so long as the practices and strategies lead to financial success. If the business succeeds, consumers are benefitting and proving those practices to be the means to the end.

The people creating the product should always have the right to not participate if the business practices confront their own moral stances, even if that means resignation (termination is also justified if an employee refuses to participate in an effort that would lead to financial success). Participating does not make someone a "baddie" as long as they do not sacrifice their moral threshold.

Many of my friends and colleagues have disagreed with me, deemed me a "baddie," and made excellent arguments for why this business-first attitude is detrimental. But I firmly believe that many of the technologies that are used globally are a result of companies looking past individualism, and building something that brings gains for that business.

At the end of the day, if a business succeeds, then it is benefitting someone somewhere, regardless of my personal opinions. I will always say no if I say something I cannot stomach, but I speak out knowing that my role in the company is expendable, and I am owed nothing beyond the paycheck I receive for my contributions.

"Baddie" is subjective. There is very little regulation around moral business practices (also subjective), and the boundary (again, subjective) is being pushed every day. I am passionate about this topic because I have questioned my work roles many times, and I feel that (besides obvious and necessary legal regulations) the morals of the individual and the ethics of the business should always have the right to remain free.

2 comments

>>At the end of the day, if a business succeeds, then it is benefitting someone somewhere, regardless of my personal opinions. I will always say no if I say something I cannot stomach, but I speak out knowing that my role in the company is expendable, and I am owed nothing beyond the paycheck I receive for my contributions.

I don’t know how to say this un-offensively, so I’ll just say I think this is a morally bankrupt position that can be used to justify all kinds of fraud and crime because there was at least one benefactor. I think to make a utilitarian justification you need to take into account the negative impact on others too.

I don’t think you are morally bankrupt though, it sounds like you have another framework for determining what you personally will work on.

You make a great point. I hear this one a lot from those I admire deeply. Two counterpoints to discuss:

1. I am convinced that fraud and crime are directly related to exploitation, and are the result of decisions and actions of people in a position of control. Those in control know they are committing these bad acts, and continue to do so, making them "baddies." As someone who was never in a position of managing control, but who eventually gained insight and perspective into the underlying business practices, when I recognized the fraud and crime, I made the decision to quit and report to the legal governing bodies. My opinion is that it was in the right of the company (and management) to "go for gold," but they went too far, broke the law, and were appropriately punished. I don't believe I was bankrupt in that I severed my relationship immediately upon my discovery of their true nature.

2. This may be semantics, but my point on companies relying on "benefactors" was actually more of a capitalism argument, in that a company can succeed regardless of treatment of employees or practices of skirting the generally-applicable moral ideals, so long as the end user is benefitting and continues to patronize the business.

I do appreciate your feedback because I am always doubting myself on certain projects as to the setting of my threshold for revolt: is it when I feel someone, somewhere is being exploited, or when I know that the business practices are actively and knowingly conducted against the current law?

People can continue to use businesses that harm them if they have no leverage or have compromised judgment. Pay day loan operations with extortive interest rates, opioid manufacturers, casinos. All have some legitimate customers that derive real benefit, but likely more that are harmed.
In a nutshell, I think it is good business if the business and the customers both benefit.

Historically, several cultures revered honey bees as examples to follow. The bees got fed by providing a service to the flowers. They are not predators. The pollinate plants and create nectar for themselves. They don't eat the plant per se.

This was a revolutionary mental model, one we don't emphasize enough. Trade can be a civilizing force, but is often viewed as an evil force. Many people see capitalism as pure evil, as a means to exploit people in pursuit of the almighty dollar.

Basically, I'm talking about business that genuinely adds more value to the world rather than business that enriches some at the expense of others. There are two ways to profit: one is to find ways to improve your own bottom line by reducing someone else's welfare. The other is dealmaking where all involved parties are better off for having come together.

It's a high bar to meet. I don't think it is unattainable.

Best.