[EpicEng]

So any society below those 22 on the "Satisfaction with life index" is "deeply broken"? I think you're missing the point; I'm not saying that the US is the most super awesome society in existence, I'm saying that we're much better off than most, and we're _obviously_ much better off than most historical civilizations.

The term "deeply broken" implies that the whole thing needs to be upended and reformed. A more reasonable and informed observer would note that there remain issues to be addressed, but we have seen incremental improvements for quite some time now and there's no good reason for e.g. revolution.

[andbberger]

I vehemently disagree, we should absolutely revolt.

Show me the non-technological incremental improvements.

The US is not a democracy, legislative power is sold to the highest bidder. Legally.

Couple that with unregulated capitalism and things are looking quite bleak.

Inequality is on the rise and there is no reason to think that trend will reverse.

But at least we have iPhones.

We're very young as a species. Our current structures of power are not intentionally constructed but inherited. There is no reason to think this is the best we can do as a species. Why don't we put the same level of effort into designing our social structures as we do into literally everything else we develop as a society? Where is the rigor?

Now look me in the eyes and tell me everything is fine.

[EpicEng]

>I vehemently disagree, we should absolutely revolt.

You would make things worse.

>Show me the non-technological incremental improvements

Civil rights, LGBTQ rights, women's suffrage, the rise of the middle class, worker's rights... I could keep going.

>Couple that with unregulated capitalism and things are looking quite bleak

We don't have unregulated capitalism. Not even close.

>Inequality is on the rise and there is no reason to think that trend will reverse.

There is every reason to believe that it will if you even have a basic understanding of history. This stuff is cyclical and, in modern times, shows a constant upwards trend (i.e. trending toward economic equality and equality of opportunity).

>We're very young as a species. Our current structures of power are not intentionally constructed but inherited

Well you had better back that up because a lot of more knowledgeable people would disagree with you there. You are making a broad claim about human behavior without any evidence. I don't think you understand the gravity or far reaching consequences of that argument.

>Now look me in the eyes and tell me everything is fine.

I never said that. I said that most things are fine, in fact better than ever, and we should continually strive to improve those areas which aren't. You seem to think that 'equality' is something that we can impose by fiat, yet we have reams of evidence to the contrary.

[andbberger]

Your appeal to history being cyclical is a statement of blind faith.

The past is not necessarily a good predictor of the future - corps have an unprecedented amount of power over our government.

I'm making a rather specific argument as to why things are going to keep getting worse. I do not accept your general appeal to history as a counter argument to this - we are in new territory.

Why specifically should we expect the trend of increasing corporate power over our legal systems to reverse?

> Civil rights, LGBTQ rights, women's suffrage, the rise of the middle class, worker's rights... I could keep going.

LGBTQ is the only recent development, no corporate interest to fight there and it was still a ridiculous struggle.

I think that the kernel of my disagreement with you is that your argument is rooted in appeals to history. And I think the kernel of my disagreement with this notion is simply that we suck at government.

All of the modern amenities we enjoy ultimately came out of a very effective way of finding things out about the world: empiricism and the scientific method. Until we bring that to bear on systems of governance, I will not be satisfied by any appeal to our current knowledge of how these things work. Because we don't know shit.

The aviation industry is my favorite example of how much we can accomplish with empirical systems engineering. The industry has collectively achieved an absolutely ridiculous standard of safety by carefully analyzing accidents at a systems level. From mechanical failures to user interfaces to pilot training - they consider each level on its own and how they interact. And the result is absolutely incredible.

We could bring these same techniques to bear on our societies. But we don't.