[dunpeal]

> One of my classmates negotiated hard for that same job, and while he got more money, he left a bad taste in people

Care to elaborate what "negotiating hard" means?

I've been on both sides of the hiring process multiple times. Never seen a candidate get any serious downside from negotiating.

In fact, there were a couple of cases I wish they did! The worst was when you find a good candidate, give them what seems like a competitive offer, then they disappear, and you learn after a couple of months they preferred my position, but got better pay elsewhere, where the difference is definitely small enough that we would cover it. If only the candidate wasn't so polite!

Recently there's also a trend of recruiters encouraging candidates to negotiate counter-offers, which in my eyes is efficient.

> He has been pursuing me to accept my original offer for the past 2 months and I have been lukewarm because I got turned off.

Clearly his mistake was negotiating with no leverage.

That said, I'll turn the table here: if I got an offer for a senior position, and a polite attempt to negotiate was met with immediate rescission, I'd assume the weren't quite so interested in the first place.

[contras1970]

> you find a good candidate, give them what seems like a competitive offer, then they disappear, and you learn after a couple of months they preferred my position, but got better pay elsewhere, where the difference is definitely small enough that we would cover it. If only the candidate wasn't so polite!

or maybe: "If only you didn't try to shortchange the candidate!"?

numbers on offer are the honest signal free agents get in the job market. if the jobs are similar enough, why should the candidate expend extra energy to achieve what is the default state elsewhere? why should they risk receiving a could shoulder because they negotiated "too hard"?

[dunpeal]

Without going into all the details of the situation: I sincerely believed my offer was very competitive for that candidate. It was a very substantial raise over his current comp, and the number I gave him was vetted by our recruiter as very competitive.

The difference also wasn't very large. As I said, had he told me about the other offer, I'd have offered him more, no problem. That's why I encourage candidates to negotiate in this situation. Just say "look, I really liked your offer, but I just got another offer for $X." Worst case, you'll get politely declined. If my impression of you was positive so far, I won't change my mind over this.

[throwaway929394]

>Care to elaborate what "negotiating hard" means?

He was one of those people "I should get the absolute maximum I could ever get out of any situation." He did get a better offer, and so he was successful in that. He also created much higher expectation of what he could do "he really negotiates hard, I hope he is worth it" kind of vibe.

Fortunately for me, I went in creating reasonably modest expectation (let's say I don't stand out) and I was able to vastly exceed those expectation while he came with inflated expectations that he fell short. Not a great way to start a career. And it went downhill from there for him.

People do make judgments about another person based on factors like this. In my friend's case, I wasn't the one judging him as a tough negotiator (I was a nobody), it was the manager who hired him.

My point is: articles like this should not be taken as the gospel and my own advice is not gospel either. Evaluate your particular recruitment situation (as a job seeker or as a recruiting manager) and act with judgement and common sense.

[dunpeal]

> He was one of those people "I should get the absolute maximum I could ever get out of any situation."

The problem then seems to be coming across as greedy and/or difficult / demanding person. So he's creating a concern over his personality, which goes far beyond the mere act of negotiating.

I maintain that if you negotiate politely and realistically, no such personality concerns should be raised. If a company still responds to that by rescinding, then either they are unreasonable, or they were never too interested, both of which are reasons for you to decline - especially the latter.

> People do make judgments about another person based on factors like this.

Yes, exactly.

Also, I'm guessing since it was a junior position, your friend's "tough negotiation" got him a few more thousands of dollars at best.

Negotiating hard over such a small amount will earn you the disdain of a hiring manager, who will see it as pettiness and lack of vision concerning future career.

> Evaluate your particular recruitment situation (as a job seeker or as a recruiting manager) and act with judgement and common sense.

Definitely! Still, imho, most candidates err on the side of not negotiating enough, so articles like these are welcome.

Employers do have an advantage in negotiations: they know a lot more than the candidate (certainly junior candidate), and have people whose full-time job is to hire you on the best terms for them, while you are presumably an expert in something like writing software or designing electric circuits, not contract negotiations.

So I welcome articles like this, that should hopefully even the playing field a bit.

[mercutio2]

I’m so glad you wrote all this. I’ve had exactly the same experience.

It matters very little what your initial salary is, if you’re working at a well run company.

If you come in low on the totem pole, expectations will be low, and if you exceed them, you will get rewarded as a high achieving person.

Coming in with high expectations doesn’t seem like a good play unless you were really happy where you were before, and just want to see if you can make it in a new place.