[omarforgotpwd]

There are a billion MORE people in China than in the US. There is enormous industry and innovation there. China's government is terrible but that is their issue to resolve. All we can do is speak out, but refusing to do business hurts Chinese and American people far more than it hurts the Chinese government. Our government kills many innocent people accidentally as part of the normal course of war, but we consider it an acceptable place to do business anyway.

[enwa]

I think it is essentially the opposite. Speaking out does nothing since we, nor the Chinese, have any power to change the situation. All it does is makes the speaker feel good about their own situation.

The power we do have is to make our own choices. The Chinese might certainly have, what they think are, good reasons for doing what they are doing, but that doesn't mean you have to participate if you think you have better reasons for not doing so.

Chinese companies are largely forced to align with the Chinese government. US companies disagreeable behavior, including aligning themselves with the US and Chinese governments, are largely their own choosing. The reality is that Silicon Valley's moral compass is buried at the bottom of their own Superfund sites.

[omarforgotpwd]

Suppose I'm Tim Cook and refuse to participate in the Chinese market. No iPhones for you. Who is hurt? Mostly Chinese people. They get a crappier phone with less security and privacy protection. I'm also hurt financially. There are a lot of people in China. Real people are getting hurt, and the political situation stays the same. Political change will happen in China when it does. It feels somewhat inevitable to me but one thing we can't do is force democracy on them. They have a lot of "anti-imperial" ideas in their culture due to many invasions from Japan and other western nations and for the idea of democracy and free markets to really take hold it needs to come naturally from China itself -- not through economic pressure from US companies.

[ardy42]

> China's government is terrible but that is their issue to resolve. All we can do is speak out, but refusing to do business hurts Chinese and American people far more than it hurts the Chinese government.

No. You can't do business with China and speak out because then the Chinese government will refuse to do business with you. You have to toe their line in the West in order to get access to their market. See the recent articles regarding airline's treatment of Taiwan on their websites [1].

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-china/u-s-ai...

[scandox]

I'm sure that some more fully articulated and sophisticated version of what you've said forms the basis of YC's decision to continue pragmatically pursuing its goal of being big and important (and incidentally making lots of money).

[enwa]

That is very unlikely. When you start or own businesses in China you largely give up the right to criticize the Chinese government. Not only because you have to deal with the Chinese government, but because you won't have any credibility left at home. You can't on the one hand argue that the Chinese government is oppressive and on the other that it is practical to change peoples minds.

[omarforgotpwd]

What, I'm not sophisticated and articulate at 3 AM? ;)

[scandox]

They've just had a hell of a long time to polish their excuses :)

[vasco]

One accidentally breaks an egg. One doesn't "accidentally" kill innocent people because they "accidentally" launched a missile to an area where civilians are.

[deejaybog]

Yeah, "incidentally" would be a better qualification.