It has nothing to do with nationalism. The PRC is a dictatorship that currently has millions of people in concentration camps undergoing reeducation, suppresses freedom of expression for its citizens, and crushes minority cultures.
Dismissing or condemning an entire country like you did, besides being unsubstantive, certainly qualifies as nationalistic flamebait in the sense that we use the term here. Please don't post like this to HN.
I have nothing against the people of China but the PRC government and Chinese business is so intertwined that I don't think it's possible to do business with China and not interact or enable the PRC in any way.
The trouble with this is that when people bring grandiose or generic rhetoric, the only place the discussion can go is into flamewar, as others get even more grandiose and generic (or personal).
You're not adding any information when you post like this. It's just a strong opinion with a strong feeling attached. When someone else with the opposite opinion comes along and blasts their opposite feeling, no interesting information will be exchanged. Therefore it's off topic for thoughtful conversation, which is what we're trying for here.
An HN thread thrives on curiosity and specifics, withers on the gruel of grandiosity, and fries under scorching rhetoric.
The root comment didn't reference that or anything else.
The problem with bringing such links into arguments like this is that no one does so for reasons of intellectual interest. For example, in this case, people aren't actually interested in the plight of the Uighurs. Rather, it's convenient ammunition for justifying pre-existing political and national feelings. Such a move is not part of thoughtful conversation at all; it's just ideology and tribal loyalty, which explains why the discussions are so utterly repetitive—and therefore off topic for HN.
It's not flamebait to discuss the very real, very troubling human rights issues that exist in China. It's certainly not just an "opinion." I'm seriously concerned by your calling out the parent comments like this, and even more concerned that you're doubling down in other comments. I don't think it's the best look to shut down criticism of a government like China's (no one is talking about the Chinese people here) that routinely, demonstrably commits human rights abuses. They are documented and real. The Chinese government commits murder, torture, theft...
I'm not sure what to say if HN's position is that it's too controversial (or is it that "all denunciations are the same"? They are not) to call out such actions. These discussions are clearly related to the topic at hand.
Maybe those of us criticizing the Chinese government aren't saying anything new, but that doesn't lessen the need to speak out. It's neither "rhetoric" nor "grandiosity" to point out that it's morally wrong for a government to act the way China's does.
I would expect the PRC to put a lid on this sort of criticism, not Hacker News. It's bordering on complicity.
> For example, in this case, people aren't actually interested in the plight of the Uighurs.
What an awful sentiment. Please don't profess to know my own moral compass. I am deeply concerned and sickened; we all should be. These people are being forcibly relocated and tortured by their own government.
Doing business with the Chinese government is unethical. Doing business with Chinese entrepreneurs and providing services to the Chinese people is a humanitarian imperative.
Without going to far into the political weeds, the US has never delivered freedom effectively at the end of a gun, but rather through McDonalds and Coca Cola.
Yes. With the astronomical level of clout that Elon Musk has, I'm willing to call him immoral, unethical, and a bad person for doing business with KSA. A vanishingly small number of people are as influential as Musk, and his actions inspire and are emulated worldwide. Saudi Arabia is currently trying to rehabilitate its image (while maintaining its vicious corporal punishments, extremist views, support of terrorism, and legalized misogyny) and shouldn't have help from anyone who claims to care about anything other than profit.
We make concessions every day regarding human rights in the United States (abusing immigrant/migrant labor under the table, our prison population). I am most definitely not saying it's right, but you have to look inward first when you're making such bold claims.
All Chinese businesses are subordinate to the PRC. It is my personal opinion that we have reached a point of technological progress where totalitarian control of massive states such as China is simply possible when it wasn't a few decades prior to the advent of modern computing.
I do not have any faith that any amount of trade with China will cause the government to reform in any meaningful way and I'm confident that China will remain a dictatorship a thousand years from now.