[rsynnott]

If Tesla collapsed tomorrow, I don't see that that'd make a huge difference to adoption of electric cars in the long-term. Arguably, Nissan collapsing would be worse. The Leaf is a much better model for widespread adoption than Tesla's stuff.

[MrEfficiency]

I was going to say GM's Bolt/Volt since it was one of those 'best cars of the year'. If that fails + is electric, thats a bad indicator for the future.

Tesla gets a pat on the back for trying to be new/different. The quality of Tesla is nothing like established companies. You cant even blame Tesla, they dont have data like a company thats been around for decades.

[rsynnott]

> I was going to say GM's Bolt/Volt since it was one of those 'best cars of the year'.

Barely available outside the US. There's the Opel Ampera, which is mostly a GM Volt, but it's weirdly expensive so no-one buys it. The Leaf is the world's best-selling electric car, for now (especially if you include its very close relatives like the Renault Zoe; I don't think that's precisely the same platform, but it's close).

[greglindahl]

GM doesn't get California credits for selling Bolts outside of California and the other states that follow the California standard.

Isn't the Leaf about to stop being the world's best-selling electric car?

[rsynnott]

It's possibly been replaced by the BAIC EC, at least for the first part of this year. That's unlikely to last, though; the Chinese market is too fragmented for that. The BAIC EC is also of very limited relevance worldwide.

[MrEfficiency]

>but it's weirdly expensive so no-one buys it.

But isnt that the same problem with the Tesla?

[nickik]

Is the Model 3 not already massivly outselling Leaf month by month? Can you show some date on that?

[rsynnott]

Hard to come by proper figures for the 2018 Leaf currently, but Nissan has said they're selling one every 10 minutes in Europe. That'd be a little over 4000 a month. They're presumably also selling some in Japan and the US (looks like 1-2000 in the US), so all in all they pretty much have to be outselling the Model 3.

[humantiy]

It's also worth noting for Nissan those are people buying the car at a dealership (not preordered) and driving away with it presumably that day. A lot of Tesla's numbers are filling all the preorders of people who have been waiting months to a year. What will happen when they finally complete all those orders of people waiting? That isn't to say sales will stop but certainly there has to be some consideration there.

[nickik]

Tesla is also able to sustain the S/X without lots of pre-orders. Tesla has also said that they can see a sustained growth in orders in addition to the backlog. At some point they will reach some steady state number.

[greglindahl]

Model 3 US sales were 14,250 last month (July). That's what I was getting at when I asked you about the Leaf getting dethroned.

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

[nickik]

The Bolt is cheap and quck compliance car. Its sales have alread dropped like a stone, the Model 3 is outselling it 12:1 and that will increase month over month.

Claiming Tesla quality is not as good as established players is wrong in most regards. Maybe GM built a better frame and maybe the fit and finish is a bit better but thats about it. In terms of battery, electronics, electrical, interial design, software integration, suspention, safty, surounding infrastructure and most other things Tesla is lightyears ahead of the Bolt.

Literllay every single Bolt produced loses about 7000$-10000$. It will not be produced in large not be produced in large numbers for many years at best.

[greglindahl]

The phrase "compliance car" is generally used to refer only to low-range, lower-priced cars sold only because California forced them to. The Bolt has a much longer range and is higher priced than GM's previous compliance cars.

[nickik]

Its a compliance car because the way the fuel efficiency regulation works requires companies to have a balance of cars. I'm not from the US so I don't really understand it.

The Bolt is probably better then other compliance cars because they can see the future as well. Also who would buy those even lower range cars now that there is more competition.

[MrEfficiency]

Careful speaking about things you are unfamiliar with.

This does more harm than good.

[nickik]

What are you talking about? The regulations are real, even if I don't fully understand how exactly the work.

Just because the current 'compliance car' and the Bolt are not the same does not mean its not for many of the same reasons.

They did built the Bolt to be able to comply with regulation EVEN while the Bolt itself is losing money per car.

[belltaco]

I think Tesla cars are the big reason for the halo effect that is taking hold of electric cars being luxury item muscle cars rather than the popular perception that cars like the Prius and Leaf are "wimpy" weak cars. Pickup trucks and SUVs are very popular in the US, and people are not going to easily switch to cars like the Leaf. Without Tesla I think the process is going to set back at least several years.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/the-steadily-disappearing-am...