[sologoub]

Can’t speak for China, but in Russia the greatest level of popular political activity in recent times was during the peak of the economic prosperity for the average Russian - circa 2012-2013.

People were actually driving around Moscow with stickers and banners calling the main political party out for corruption and theft of state property/funds.

Then came the sanctions and 50% plunge in value of the currency. Incomes remained nominally the same for most people or were even cut with the pretext of having to deal with economic crisis/sanctions.

The end result was that most people got scared for their livelihood and just went quiet. When you are afraid for your next paycheck and are no longer sure of the future, political dissent becomes a luxury that’s hard to afford.

Leaving the markets and applying economic blockades just makes the situation worse for the people and strengthens the regimes because these are the only beacons of stability they have.

[the_grue]

Let's get the logic straight here. Economic stagnation is a result of living under an aggressive totalitarian state, not of foreign sanctions on that state. You personally are unfortunate to live in that state and suffer from the side effects of wars it's waging, but Russians as a nation fully support the regime and have been empowering it for many years, therefore I feel they deserve what they're getting and more, until they regain their wits once again. Sanctions or not, the opposition movement of 2011-2013 in Russia had never had popular support, anyway, as the wide population chose to stick to its imperialistic ambitions and ignorance.

The same argument can be made about China. But even in badly behaving states that are not supported by their own population, the effects of foreign actions can only be viewed as a side effect, not as a central part of the narrative. Same as civilian casualties in a purely defensive war are only an unfortunate, but often necessary side effect of one state defending itself from the other.

[sologoub]

I’m an American and your logic is flawed. Try actually visiting the place and learning about/from the people.

[the_grue]

> I’m an American and your logic is flawed.

Let me show you why I consider this line genuinely hilarious. In my opinion, an American would not normally make an absolute statement of that kind, they would say "I think your logic is flawed" or at least "let me show why your logic is flawed". An absolute claim of this kind sounds very Russian to my trained ear.

> Try actually visiting the place and learning about/from the people.

Thanks, but I spent half of my life in "the place" and have firmly settled on staying away for the rest of it.

[chapium]

This is a technical forum after all. Most devs and engineers ive meant are pretty blunt.

[the_grue]

While I agree that an engineer is less likely to spend effort on politeness, they are more likely to substantiate their claims. sologub did neither in their comment.

[sologoub]

Well, besides misspelling my name, you did not even stop to consider what I wrote before engaging in trying to spot a Russian national behind the post.

To understand why people “support” the current government, you have to understand what they have been through. 90s have not been kind to the average “Joe” (Ivan?) in Russia (or most of the non-EU former Soviet Union countries). From bad economical prospects to collapsing healthcare/education/social protections, life really went bad for them. When police is more dangerous than the thugs that shake you down, your priorities change.

This is why I advised that you should get to know the people first, before you judge them evil. You’ll likely find a lack of imperialist or almost any ambitions above and beyond a safe, modestly plentiful life and some hope for their children to live just a bit better.

Just like I believe a good portion of those who have voted for the current administration in US are at heart decent people, who are either angry or somehow disenfranchised, so are most people around the world. You have to get to know them to understand what ills have motivated their choices. Walk a mile in their shoes as it were.

[sologoub]

Great, now we are determining the merit of a statement based on grammar and choice of words... (Written on a phone, so your mileage may vary)

If you are in LA (Los Angeles) it’s easy enough to look me up.

[the_grue]

I am determining the merit of a statement based on the arguments, which are absent in your comment. The choice of words merely made it ironic.

[amaccuish]

> Economic stagnation is a result of living under an aggressive totalitarian state

Your logic is flawed. Try telling that to China.

[the_grue]

China's economy is already slowing down, and I expect it to hit a ceiling sooner rather than later. Its advantages over the Western countries are cheap labor, undervalued currency and the freedom from intellectual property-related litigation risks. Its disadvantages are the lack of freedom of sharing ideas, its disconnect from the rest of the world, corruption and a weak justice system. While the advantages are quickly exhausting their effect, the disadvantages are there to stay, so the point of equilibrium must be below the Western countries.

[oytis]

Russian here (also have taken part in protests 2012-2013). I believe isolating just one factor for the correlation might give deceiving results. It is true that protest movement has been much less active since 2014, it is also true that Russian economy is in crisis since 2014, but I don't think that the latter was the reason for the former.

Rather

1) As protests of 2012-2013 have failed despite the largest headcount in modern Russian history, people feel demoralized. That works pretty universally the same, (see international Occupy movement for instance).

2) The occupation of Crimea and Donbass region in 2014 made a split in Russian society deeper. Protests of 2012-2013 tried to unite liberal democrats, nationalists and communists, and most of the latter two support Russian aggression. So no union is possible any more.

3) Finally a lot of politically active people have left the country around 2014 (again because of demoralizing effect of both failed protests and successful occupation of Ukrainian territories).

So my opinion on the original topic is that it's worth limiting any collaboration with authoritarian regimes. Such regimes more often crash because of inability to solve their problems than because of successful protest movements, so it's better to increase probablility of the first scenario.