[carapace]

I don't think it's nationalistic, I think it's a war of fundamental values.

The Chinese Communists put control above truth. The Western World puts truth above control. The most powerful law of the most powerful Western nation enshrines as it's First Amendment the unlawfulness of force restraining speech.

For the sake of further discussion, let me set aside the moral argument, and pretend that stable human civilization demands compartmentalization of history. Maybe we do need a "Grey File" of forbidden knowledge to prevent the proles from becoming unhappy with their lot.

Here's the operational, the pragmatic problem with that: You have to control the whole story or you risk societal schizophrenia. What is the Chinese tourist to do when eventually exposed to the truth? There are two choices: instantly become at least partially a rebel -or- cognitive dissonance: go a bit insane and reject the real world in favor of the consensus reality. Rebellion or insanity.

Unless of course the airlines agree to say the right thing about Taiwan on their websites, then everything will be fine.

[nikofeyn]

> The Western World puts truth above control.

you can’t be serious about this. when has the truth mattered in the u.s. in recent times?

in the u.s., companies control the government and people. in china, the government controls the companies and people. there really isn't much difference.

[carapace]

> you can’t be serious about this.

Of course I am. It's fundamental.

> when has the truth mattered in the u.s. in recent times?

To whom?

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. In the West you can drink as much as you want freely, under the CCP even attempting to drink the wrong water will get you locked up or worse.

That's a huge difference. It's a matter of fundamental values, and beliefs about the very nature of what it is to be human, and how to live our lives together in stability and happiness.

> in the u.s., companies control the government and people.

The rich write the laws in the U.S.A., this is evident if you study the behavior and history of Congress. From the POV of realpolitik the essential control feature differentiating the Old Totalist from the Modern Western regimes is the axis of denial and permission. In the old imperial system you did what you were supposed to and didn't do anything else, everything was restricted and you needed the Emperor's permission wipe your nose. In the New World you can do whatever the hell you want but if you go off the rails you get jerked back.

The Western system allows for faster evolution. Time will tell whether that leads to thousands of years of stability. We know that the Totalist system always collapses and then has to be rebuilt after a period of chaos and anarchy. Literally dozens of kingdoms and empires have arisen and then fallen across the whole of Asia for thousands of years.

The Western permissive system is a new thing under the Sun.

[mda]

I agree about the western world and truth part. But saying there isn't much difference between them is quite a leap.