[drglitch]

Having recently gotten a new BMW (in USA), they give you a huge packet of about 30 pages explaining the BMW TeleService and the "SOS" button. They also make you sign a power of attorney-style doc giving them rights to notify police in case they believe your vehicle is in trouble and provide police/EMS with its exact location.

Mercedes and Audi have similar systems, as do others via OnStar. This is one of few cases where i believe having an "oh shit" button/system that automatically activates in case of serious accident or another event is valuable.

EDIT: oh, and this is entirely opt-in, at least on BMW.

[netsharc]

BMW offers a car-sharing service in some cities in Europe through a joint venture with Sixt, called DriveNow. Some assholes like to take these cars and go for joyrides/street races. One of these idiots ran over a bicyclist and killed them. The court/prosecution asked DriveNow to give them the "black box" data of GPS location/heading/speed, but the company doesn't monitor GPS during trips. The court asked BMW, and BMW could comply. A bit freaky...

(After reading more about it, the black box is only for cars used in this service, and apparently BMW and DriveNow have a "data protection firewall": BMW only tells DriveNow where the trip started and ended, and doesn't know who rented the car, and DriveNow knows who the renter is but doesn't know more other than the start/end of their trip)

[mynameisvlad]

It's in some cities in the US too. It's not freaky at all for a company to want to protect their assets (the DriveNow cars). Mercedes Benz does this with their Car2Go cars as well, and I'm sure ZipCar also does this too. They have custom software running to enable all the DriveNow/Car2Go functionality.

[jiveturkey]

No, not entirely. Please give me the instructions on how to opt out. Whenever someone asks (which is rare), the forums are filled with replies like "why would you not want BMW to monitor you? are you a fraudster?" IOW the forums do not know how to opt out either.

Everytime I take my 2016 in to service, I ask both sales and service to disable teleservices. They say they cannot. I then call BMW teleservices (every time), and they tell me that the dealer has to do it.

There are explicit instructions from BMW online that in Germany you can take it to the dealer to have it disabled. No mention of any other country.

Yes, the emergency aspect of it is valuable. It's not worth the compromise in privacy, at the complete discretion and ineptitude of a corporation that has a profit motive.

In 2016, I certainly did not sign (and was not asked) any kind of doc authorizing location disclosure. My car definitely does have teleservices activated. (don't know if they will report my location)

[drglitch]

There are three components to my knowledge. below is my anecdotal knowledge so pls verify if needed :)

- remote car monitoring/bmw connected app. this can be tweaked (its off by default) via idrive. I believe there is also some anonymized sharing with "parknow" and real time traffic apps.

- maintenance notifications. this is on by default and can be disabled in bmw's new "my car" website. They also send you a postcard letting you know its on periodically.

- "sos" services - I would call BMW and ask to have it turned off (its on by default). The signing of the doc might be depending on the state you're in. Mine's NJ reg, but NY dealer.

If BMW ever shares the location data with third parties other than police, I would have major issues with all of this.

To answer sibling post, SIM cards are located inside the Navi computer, which is a big gray/black metal box behind one of side access panels within the trunk (or under trunk for most sedans). BMWs can also be coded (google that- dealer wont do it) to not use SIM data completely. If you truly want teleservices disabled, find a friendly BMW modder shop adept at coding and they'll help you void your car's warranty :)

[jiveturkey]

> If BMW ever shares the location data with third parties other than police, I would have major issues with all of this.

By that time it would be too late. And the problem with privacy-related info (like location history) is that once revealed, it can’t be re-secured. So the only proper fix is to not collect it in the first place.

Also BMW is a car company. Consumer data protection is not their core competency. Then info may not be intentionally revealed. A rogue employee may decide to listen in (as in OnStar case). We can’t know what controls they have in place to mitigate risk. Since I obtain almost no value I want to be able to opt out. That they make this difficult is so aggravating. But I love their cars. I wish I could quit you BMW.

I wonder if GDPR is a factor for new car sales. In fact maybe that’s why you got a big packet and had to opt in, and back in 2016 it was instead quite impossible to opt out.

[hvidgaard]

GDPR is quite hard on the fact that you must opt in. It can be argued that using the services they provide is enough of an opt in, but the GDPR states that they must explain in detail what the collect and what they'll do with the data.

[jacquesm]

Under the GDPR you could force BMW to hand over what data they have on your car. That way you would at least have some idea of what gets stored and for how long.

[jiveturkey]

As a US citizen residing in the US, no I couldn't. (They might voluntarily disclose, applying GDPR globally, but they aren't required to do so.)

Additionally, my interaction is with BMW USA, not BMW AG. If teleservices is instantiated locally in the US for US customers, then it's doubly the case the BMW need not respond to any such inquiry.

[jacquesm]

> I wonder if GDPR is a factor for new car sales.

You brought the GDPR into it.

[driverdan]

Can you pull the SIM card?

[drglitch]

Cards can be pulled physically but not replaced without changing out hardware associated with telenav units. See: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1149540

[chrisper]

No, because this is an embedded system and fiddling around with that is maybe going to void your warranty?

[driverdan]

Not in the US. So long as your changes don't cause damage your warranty can't be voided.