[ck425]

> "I saw men acting the way men do in a very male environment and objectifying/trying to sleep with women."

Enough with the boys will be boys angle. That behavior doesn't have to be the default male behavior. It shouldn't be the default male behavior.

Enough is enough, that's not ok anymore. And we men need start calling each other out on it.

[zimablue]

Why shouldn't it be the default male group behavior (for some ages and environments) to discuss women?

Is it that trying to sleep with women is immoral or that considering their looks is immoral or that discussing it is immoral?

I guess the core way I disagree with modern culture is that there's this idea that women are either viewed as objects or as humans. It's kind of obvious that they're both, if you say that women are absolutely not sexual objects or to be seen as such then OK but you've blinded yourself to 50% of how the world unavoidably works. You can and should view women BOTH as objects and humans, and everyone is capable of doing so. I don't think objectification is the offense, I think dehumanisation is and they're not the same thing.

[camel_Snake]

> You can and should view women BOTH as objects and humans

But did the company demonstrate this at all? I only read about objectification. If they truly saw women as humans as well they wouldn't have laughed off her suggestion that some of the female characters in the game could be anything other than a sex object.

[Djvacto]

None of the ways in which women were discussed was respectful. That's the difference.

You're talking about hypothetical respectful objectification, which just isn't a thing.

[zimablue]

It's only not a thing because you've defined it as such. You can make the rule that "commenting on a girl's looks or whether you could get with them is disrespectful" and then the loophole is closed, but my argument is that that's not a truthful or helpful way to organize the world.