[detaro]

There's also a difference between "talking about women" and the things described in the article (and a lot of different ways of talking about women, which can be done without degrading language). Calling a coworker a "Ho" or complaining they'd not be willing to share a hotel room with an unknown man is not the same level as "they didn't like that we talk about women".

[zimablue]

I think the Ho thing was clearly an attempt at humor, and an attempt to "bring her in" to the group. It's like an old job where I was called a coal miner (being the only guy from north England). It's a nice thing, you're taking stick but that's how male groups normally bond. Instead of taking the humor as it's intended she takes offense, and what's really happening is that instead of submitting to their culture and joining the group within it, she's trying to impose her own external culture to the group and not joining it.

Being able to live your life always refusing to step outside your own culture is in itself kind of a form of privilege. In another, wealthier-born life I'd never have worked for most of my companies and spent my whole life chilling with academics that I naturally resonate with. I could have quit when I got friendly insults or had to join in the drinking culture and written angry articles about it but I'm not sure that would make me worthy of respect.

The bit about hotel room with a random man is a bit nuts but I think her relationship with the guy had just degraded as he saw her as a SJW and he was trying (mistakenly) to take an opportunity to hit her with what he saw as her own arguments.

[trowawee]

There's an enormous gap between calling someone a sex worker and calling them a coal miner. There's an even-more-enormous gap between calling most of your team "bros" and calling the one woman on your team a sex worker. That is not in-group bonding, that's targeted, gender-based harassment.

[zimablue]

Ho isn't used in the West as a pejorative, almost ever. It's far more often used playfully, and often by women themselves. Only a very offended culture would cause you to take it seriously.

And honestly, Coal Mining is a job with like social status zero and sex work status -1. My dad actually was a coal miner and it wasn't great. Even if you mindlessly take it literally it's not that far off.

[dragonwriter]

> Ho isn't used in the West as a pejorative, almost ever.

Yes, it is. Most often, IME, with a derogatory label indicating lack of intelligence alongside it, but even by itself it is.

[beart]

> Ho isn't used in the West as a pejorative, almost ever.

I live in 'The West' and I refute this claim, regardless of how it was used in this specific context.

[taurath]

May I submit as evidence against that assertion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoPFkjF-Bdo

You don't get that reaction if its not a pejorative.

[base698]

Seems like a shit test. I've been in companies where the women were better at it than the men and perfectly able to stand their ground.

> Those who consider themselves “a bullshit free zone,” eg: masculine men will “ball bust” (read: shit test your ass a new one) quite relentlessly to determine “just how much of a man you are.” If you are an effeminate or timid man, you will feel bullied rather than challenged and this tells the group everything they need to know about you.

https://illimitablemen.com/2014/12/14/the-shit-test-encyclop...

[detaro]

And the correct response if someone doesn't appreciate your attempted humor is to stop using it, instead of continuing it after they've asked you to stop use that term. You are not "bring someone in" by disregarding their wishes on how to be labelled. Groups can use crude language and be respectful to each other, but everyone being in on it is an important part of it being respectful. (And that goes both ways: people will make bad jokes and IMHO one shouldn't jump on someone for that immediately, although I can see how it can be difficult if things appear again and again, but I think it's fair to expect them to respect it if they get told off for it)

[DanBC]

> I think the Ho thing was clearly an attempt at humor,

Employment lawyers fucking love it when employees say "It was only banter", because that's almost a guarantee of a payout.

[pjc50]

The trouble with this sort of thing is that it's all "friendly" up until, and sometimes past, the rape attempts.

[camel_Snake]

> Being able to live your life always refusing to step outside your own culture is in itself kind of a form of privilege.

Isn't that exactly what the sexist bro culture she outlined is? Some coworkers were unable or unwilling to drop the parts of their personality that doesn't lend well to collaboration.

I like dirty, offensive jokes and I like to tease people - not to upset them it's just my sense of humor. My friends get that and are okay with it.

BUT I realize in an office environment these things don't help me be more effective, and they certainly don't help my colleagues be more effective, so I leave that part of myself at home. Same way I don't go on endlessly about my hobbies and passions outside of work during work hours. It's just not germane to getting shit done.