[reaperducer]

A lot of Christians talk a big game about charity and such. But once I started becoming familiar with LDS folk, I was really impressed. They’re Christians in ways many other denominations only claim to be.

KSL-TV (LDS-owned NBC station) has an AppleTV app, and watching the SLC local news is far more interesting than I thought it would be. And there’s far less needless murder and mayhem plus more “good” news than is available in my market.

[billiam]

Sorry, I too know many LDS members and really love the SLC area and all the other incredible things in the state. While I like lots of things about the LDS community, the society there has many of the problems of Western states with lots of poverty, plus some that may be attributed to Mormon values: the highest rate of antidepressant use of any state, and the highest rate of cosmetic surgery. As for crime, the murder rate in Utah is similar to that of Idaho and higher than Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Connecticut.

[wwweston]

> plus some that may be attributed to Mormon values: the highest rate of antidepressant use of any state, and the highest rate of cosmetic surgery.

The perfectionist streak is real. The manifestation in cosmetic surgery is somewhat odd considering it's not explicitly taught (and has even been explicitly been panned). My own theory is that it's a weird combo of taking ideals seriously, religiously magnified & concentrated conscientiousness, and finally, heavily emphasizing the importance of having a mate and tying status to it.

However, I'm not sure the most ready explanation for any outlying antidepressant is oppressive religious expectations, outside of either some extra zealous backgrounds or key demographics like gay/lesbian individuals who are presented with a dilemma by the church that usually can't be resolved living inside church direction.

Given the famous abstinence from most common forms of self-medication (alcohol, weed, and tobacco), and a bit of a bent for being directed by authority, seems to me a good chunk of the difference is likely to essentially be displaced system-approved substance use.

[komali2]

>highest rate of anti depressant use

I could restate this positively as "highest rate of treated depression," so I'm wondering if it also has abnormally high rates of depression?

[swsieber]

Or even just abnormally high rates of depression treatment...

That said, I believe that there is other data showing there is other perscriptio drug abuse more prevelance than usual. If that's from increased depression, or merely from being an easier "bad" coping mechanism that's easier to hide, I'm not sure.

There are a lot of judgemental (self righteous?) Mormons in Utah. There are a lot of nice ones as well, though I think you'll find the ratio of nice to judgemental higher in other states.

My take on it? Being mormon has become somewhat cultural in Utah. It's not nearly so much elsewhere.

[tntn]

> plus some that may be attributed to Mormon values: the highest rate of antidepressant use of any state,

I won't dispute this, but I will mention some interesting hypotheses that indicate rates of depression are highly correlated with altitude.

[chrispeel]

For more on altitude and depression see https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321219.php and https://www.livescience.com/50813-low-oxygen-increase-depres...

[paulddraper]

> the highest rate of antidepressant use of any state

I see that commonly mentioned.

What is not concurrently mentioned is that Utah is 48th for drug abuse [1], 48th for excessive drinking and 50th for alcohol-related driving deaths [2], and 50th for tobacco use [3].

Depression sucks, but anti-depressants are far, far safer (if not cheaper) than self-medicating with alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs.

[1] https://wallethub.com/edu/drug-use-by-state/35150/

[2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/03/08/these-america...

[3] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6539a1.htm#modalIdS...

[j88439h84]

Which of those are problems and which are solutions? How can you tell?

[nasredin]

You forgot pornography.

Utahns love porn.

Also all the crap LGBT Mormon kids go through.

[nobleach]

I wouldn't say Utahns "love porn", just that the study showed they're willing to PAY for it more than any other state.

[chooseaname]

By definition, there's only one way to be a Christian and LDS aren't Christians.

Pedantry aside, Christians are still human and thus succumb to sin and as such are not as charitable as they should be.

[JetSpiegel]

> there's only one way to be a Christian and LDS aren't Christians.

What? Do you mean Catholics? There are non-Catholic Christian churches, but they are still Christians.

[chooseaname]

I'm referring to their doctrine of salvation.

[TheCoelacanth]

That's an awfully broad claim considering that there are hundreds or thousands of branches of Christianity and many of them differ on what they believe to be necessary for salvation.

[RightMillennial]

True, but it's very possible for someone who's not technically Christian to be more "Christian". Not the theological aspect but the whole behavior part: "love thy neighbor", and not throwing out charitable works.

[dba7dba]

The thing with LDS is that it's more of an organization with a strong (aka oppressive? or too powerful) leadership at top. Every adult has to go on a 'mission' for a full year?

On the flip side, there is no such distinct leadership/requirements in most other Christian organizations. Pretty much anyone call self a Christian.

Maybe Catholics are similar to LDS but I'm not too familiar with them.

[rsweeney21]

Missions are 2 years for men, 1.5 years for women. It's optional for both men and women, but men are expected to go.

I went on a mission to Peru for 2 years. It was amazing, I have no regrets, but I wouldn't do it again. It was incredibly hard.

In contrast, I've started two modestly successful companies (one bootstrapped, one backed by $16M in VC money) and I'm working on starting my third. Startups are grueling, but not as grueling as a mission IMO. :)

[joeblas]

I too went on a 2 year mission in Ohio and I second the statement that it was incredibly hard but totally worth it.

[paulddraper]

And the missions are served by either young adults (18-25) or retirees.

I.e. at times that are minimally disruptive to careers, families, etc.

[ivanech]

Catholics are pretty different. The Catholic Church asks for less than the LDS (and most churches) at the local level, and it's quite a bit more hands-off. The higher levels of Catholic hierarchy looks like a medieval institution because it is a medieval institution. There is definitely set dogma, and the Church does not waver on it, but Catholics are generally quite comfortable being buffet Christians (choosing which bits to follow and which to disregard). I've met many more buffet Catholics than buffet Mormons.

[wwweston]

As far as I can tell, all Mormons are buffet Mormons. The ones that think they're not just usually aren't thinking about the rest of what's being served besides what they usually eat.

(Your point about relative comfort at this fact may remain true independent of this observation.)

[Osiris]

I've been an active member my whole life (38) and I've never even heard of "space doctrine". I looked it up and as far as I can tell, there are some theories by members of the Church but nothing from any current or former members of the Quorum of the Twelve or First Presidency, which is required for something to really be considered canon.

Just because some member of the Church believes or says something doesn't make it doctrine.

[reaperducer]

Just because some member of the Church believes or says something doesn't make it doctrine.

This is a problem for most religions these days. Some random person says something is part of their religion, and everyone on the internet and the media believe it.

It's like whenever some Catholic priest in some backwater says something that is not in line with Catholic teaching, the news picks up on it as if it came out of the Pope's mouth. Then it gets repeated ad nauseam across the internet by people who don't know, or can't be bothered to find out, if it's true or not.

[dahdum]

Islam has this same problem, I've seen countless articles over the years about some person or group issuing ridiculous fatwas that are taken seriously.

[saosebastiao]

I'd imagine that if you spent any significant amount of time tracking what Mormon apostles have actually said about a lot of controversial ideas, that you'd no longer be an active Mormon. The exmormon subreddit is littered with people who did exactly that.

[tntn]

I'm curious what beliefs you have in mind that you notice are typically not thought about. (Not that I think they don't exist, I'm just curious what specifically you have in mind).

The LDS church has an interesting tiered conception of doctrine, wherein some things that have been taught by LDS prophets are not in fact official doctrine. People tend to ignore the "space doctrine" most of the time too.

[seanmcdirmid]

That is only true in the states and perhaps parts of Europe. Catholics in Latin America, Africa, and the Philippines are much less buffet.

[ivanech]

Very true! I should have specified that this applies for Catholics in the United States.

[dragonwriter]

> The higher levels of Catholic hierarchy looks like a medieval institution because it is a medieval institution.

Well, it's got pre-medieval, medieval, and post-medieval elements.

> There is definitely set dogma

Depending on who you believe (yes, there are actually doctrinal disputes over which doctrinal pronouncements are in fact dogmatic, though there are a handful of cases which are dogmatic and not in dispute as to that) there is between very little and extremely little definitively set dogma, though.

[taejo]

I think the fact that there is a distinction between doctrine and dogma, both of which exist, and with the boundary between them subject to serious scholarly debate, just shows how dogmatic/doctrinaire (which are synonyms in everyday non-Catholic English) the Catholic Church is.

[dragonwriter]

There's not a boundary between them, one is a subset of the other. And what it really shows is how old and large the Church is (and, specifically how many questions it's been called in to address.)

How doctrinaire the Church is a pastoral question that (in terms of the central authority at least) changes considerably over time and especially with changes in Popes. Because, for all the accumulated history, tradition, and specialized language the Holy See had accumulated, it's still essentially an absolute monarchy, and the approach of the institutions reflects the personality of the person at the head of all of them.

[reaperducer]

what it really shows is how old and large the Church is

It's like trying to maintain a codebase for 1,700 years with only one major revision.

[goda90]

The belief is that God speaks to the world through a prophet, like he did with Moses, and that he still actively does so to this day. The leadership at the top is established so that it can be certain who that prophet is, and not just anyone who claims it.