[eertami]

If you're looking for a high quality cherry switched keyboard, Das was already company you wanted to avoid - and now possibly even moreso.

Das is definitely a "brand over product" company and the market is flooded with much better alternatives, eg Leopold, Varmilo, IKBC, Vortex, Filco, etc.

[deno]

There’s nothing high quality about Cherry switches. They’re just popular because literally no one else makes cheap linear “gaming” switches.

For actual typing there are vastly superior choices. In descending order: Buckling springs (used or new[1]), used Alps (for 5$ in your nearest thrift shop or for 50$-150$ on ebay) or even brand new Matias switches[2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A-vRZth7SI

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nv9_LoLn5c

[slezyr]

> They’re just popular because literally no one else makes cheap linear “gaming” switches.

Gateron, Kailh, etc. there are plenty producers of all kind of switches.

[deno]

Both of those are clones[1] of Cherry.

[1] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:Clones_of_Cherry_MX_sw...

[slezyr]

They copy "physical form of switches" but have different tactile feeling. Zealio has bunch of switches with different activation force. Cherry Browns might match just one type.

[ajryan]

You said "no one else makes" them...

[deno]

You’re right. I really just meant to say they are popular because of their ubiquity in gaming keyboards. That’s the biggest market for premium keyboards.

You can buy all kind of pretty keycaps for them, which is what “gamers” care about.

[superchink]

While I won't take away from your opinion, I want to warn others to be aware that this is a hotly debated topic, and YMMV.

There's no accounting for preference when it comes to switches or keyboards. Some people quite like Cherry switches.

[deno]

Cherry switches sound and feel like they have sand in them. In fact if I put actual sand or dirt into my white Alps keyboard it will sound and feel like that. The only exception are blue MX which somehow manage to perfectly replicate the nerve twisting experience of nails scratching on a chalkboard.

I refuse to believe there’s anyone that actually prefers Cherry switches. Most people just don’t realize there are better options.

[ajryan]

I think they meant "high-quality cherry-switched keyboard," referring to the quality of the keyboard, not the switches.

Regardless, Cherry switches are absolutely high quality - they are manufactured out of premium materials to tight specifications.

You may not prefer their feel for your purposes, but as others have said, that's a different story.

[wastedhours]

I'd also say that I've got a Ducky Shine 3 TKL with Cherry Browns as well as a cheaper generic TKL with Gateron Browns, and the latter are at least as good to me - always worth getting a switch tester, but you can shave a decent amount off by choosing non-Cherry clones.

[jdietrich]

I actually prefer the feel of the Gateron Browns. Several reviewers have commented on the smoother, less gritty feel compared to MX Browns.

[iKirin]

Same here. Gat Browns are much smoother and I feel the tactile bump is more noticeable.

[ericdykstra]

I'll throw my support for Filco here. I've been using the same Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless with Cherry Browns as my only home keyboard for 10 years, and it's as good as it was on the day I bought it. Absolutely fantastic build quality.

[dingaling]

My Filco Majestouch lasted barely a year before the USB cable failed at the keyboard end.

It's currently lying in the corner whilst I try to stomach paying £25 for a third-party cable made with their custom internal connector.

I'd prefer if they just had a USB female socket on the keyboard and then I could use any cable.

Why do keyboards have hard-wired cables anyhow? They have plenty of space for a socket and it would eliminate another point of failure.

[michaelt]

  Why do keyboards have hard-wired cables anyhow?

Captive cables only need enough copper to supply enough current for the device they're built into.

Separate cables, OTOH, need enough copper for 500mA with a certain voltage drop to be USB standard compliant. Means 24AWG or bigger for a 2m cable [1].

That's why your keyboard, mouse and webcam have skinny cables while other USB cables are much thicker.

[1] http://cdn2.goughlui.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/USB-Cabl...

[jdietrich]

A large proportion of modern mechanical keyboards have a mini/micro USB port on the bottom, with a strain relief channel for the cable. It's my preferred configuration - it won't accidentally unplug, strain on the cable won't damage the port and you can easily replace the cable if it's damaged.

https://www.mechtype.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/cable-ro...

[mansr]

> Why do keyboards have hard-wired cables anyhow?

Low-speed USB devices are not permitted by the spec to have a detachable cable. The fancier keyboards are probably full- or high-speed, though, so that doesn't apply to them. As someone else said, mechanical strength may have something to do with it. Keyboards get shoved around a lot, and a connector would likely break off too easily.

[lowry]

I ordered a new one from https://pexonpcs.co.uk/products/filco-cables but you can also make your own USB cable yourself if you manage to get the right connector. FYI, the female socket on the Filco keyboard breaks apart when pulling the USB cable, it's made of very fragile plastic.

[switch007]

Did you seek to get it repaired/replaced under the Consumer Rights Act?

[TomK32]

nothing stops you from opening the keyboard, remove that socket (whihc and either resolder the cable or put a usb socket of your liking in. USB is no magic.

[jdietrich]

There are other, possibly better options if you want Topre switches - the Leopold FC660M, the HHKB Professional and the Cooler Master Novatouch. The latter has the advantage of using Cherry MX compatible stems, if you ever want to change the keycaps.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that even tenkeyless keyboards are too wide for most right-handed users - unless you're very broad-shouldered, you'll either have to skew the keyboard to the left or use your mouse too far to the right. 60% and 68% keyboards offer real ergonomic benefits, by simple merit of being narrower.

[LMYahooTFY]

I'm in the same boat, I find these benefits of a 60% keyboard to be well worth it. Desk space, and a large mouse pad seem to pay dividends, particularly with multiple monitors.

[thesmok]

FC660M is Cherry switches. M suffix stands for Mechanical. You get Topre switches in the C version, which means Capacitive.

[megaman22]

If you do have broad shoulders however, narrower keyboards are rather painful to use. Right now, I'm using a Logitech G710+, which is a full-sized IBM-syle keyboard, with an extra row of garbage buttons on the left side. If my left hand is in line so it is comfortable and inline with my shoulder while on the asdf keys, my right hand wants to be half off the right side of the numpad. Makes typing left-handed and mousing right-handed very comfortable, but typing with both hands on the homerow somewhat cramped. It'd be interesting to try a keyboard that had the keys split apart so that asdf was in line with one shoulder and jkl; in line with the other.

[jdietrich]

A split keyboard would be a very good idea.

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/comfortable-ergo-keyboard/

[Cthulhu_]

+1, I've got blue switches though, much to everyone's annoyance. Oh well, it's just me and my computer most of the time.

The only issue I have with it is its cleanliness, need to take it apart and give it a good scrub again sometime. There's also some rust on the base plate, probably because I scratched the paint at some point. But that's not something you can see or is a problem when using it.

It's mostly for leisure though, at work I've got an Apple wireless keyboard; the low profile works for me to prevent rsi issues.

[hjnilsson]

Got the exact same keyboard, only 8 years old but 0 problems with it. Had to clean it out a few times but been very easy. It even came with a key removal tool!

[TomK32]

that's exactly the keyboard I have. Solid product.

[Freak_NL]

I've bought three DasKeyboard Model S's, and so far I've had one starting to fail on me (one block of keys not getting their key presses registered) in five years (I have one at home and one at the office in use). That's not a bad track record, but I did notice a decline in their offering.

The newer Model S introduced the 'fn' key left of the left super-button, resizing that one in the process. Now the old key-caps don't fit on the newer model any more. It also doesn't feel quite as solid as the previous Model S.

The newer 'cloud connected' keyboards take DasKeyboard in a direction that makes no sense to me. Fortunately, there are now plenty of competing mechanical keyboards, for much friendlier prices. I got a nice mechanical keyboard for €90 on Amazon last year for my girlfriend (Fnatic Gear Rush Silent LED); no complaints whatsoever, and her colleagues are jealous of it.

My next keyboard won't be a DasKeyboard.

[SmellyGeekBoy]

A high-end keyboard failing after 5 years is "not a bad track record" ?

I have 40-year-old keyboards at home that still work great - one or two are even the awful membrane type.

[donaltroddyn]

That could easily be survivorship bias, though. How many of those 40-year-old contemporaries died decades ago?

[wodenokoto]

There are still two left in parents inventory that can survive til 40!

[squarefoot]

My IBM model M I got in the mid-late 90s has a "Lotus 1-2-3 Release 2.2" sticker in the area over the function keys. That should make it about 28 years old and not a single key ever failed. Missing Windows keys are a nice feature also :)

[etcet]

It should have the manufacture date on the bottom. Mine's got a month until its 29th birthday.

[squarefoot]

The sticker underneath mine is damaged but readable: made in UK and the date is "1990-09-05", then other numbers one of which a lot bigger which could be a serial number (1391404). I have another model M somewhere, probably a bit younger than this one; they were throwing it away from a govt server room I worked in many moons ago because it didn't fit in a rack drawer. The crap they put there probably broke in less than 2 years.

[LoSboccacc]

I’ve had a microsoft curve 2000 for ten years, a mechanical keyboard should last way more.

[corv]

Fully agreed. My overpriced Das Keyboard started to exhibit severe key bouncing just after the warranty ended. They refused to do anything about it.

I only found out that the company had quietly changed what used to be Cherry switches for Chinese knock-offs after buying the keyboard.

One of the most regrettable purchases I ever made.

[SmellyGeekBoy]

I just wanted to put in a good word for WASD Keyboards. Mine has been solid as a rock, I'm still very pleased with it after 4 years of ownership.

I think it was Jeff Atwood (of Coding Horror fame) who turned me on to them in the first place.

(No association at all, just wanted to share my experience).

[petepete]

Since then Jeff Atwood launched his own keyboard.

https://codekeyboards.com

Edit. Never mind, looked up WASD and they appear to be linked to Code

[zerkla]

I bought the tenkeyless CODE keyboard with Cherry MX Clears a few months ago, and I love this thing. Not so cheap outside the US, mind. Had to pay a pretty penny at customs.

[gambiting]

I own two Corsair keyboards, the Strafe RGB(with Red Silent switches for office use) and a K68 with Red switches for home - they are both fantastic, and Corsair support has been nothing but stellar for me - the Strafe had a small issue with one of the keys, they have shipped a replacement straight away and only then I had to ship the old keyboard back. Well worth the money, and the software is very decent too.

[tazard]

As a counter, I had a K95 which started having some pretty annoying chatter (double pressing semicolons among other things) just before my year warranty was up, they replaced it without issue but then the replacement started having the same problem + dead LEDs. Except then it was a few months later and the original warranty expired so they refused to fix/replace it.

Also the keyboard is much to... Advanced?... So it doesn't get recognized when I attempt to enter the bios, so I needed to have a backup keyboard around just in case.

[geoah]

Vortex's software is just bad. Just stick to anything with open firmware.

[yiyus]

Agreed. I got a Vortex Core Mini because I liked the small form factor, but lack of customization makes it unusable for me. I got a Gherkin and am much happier with it.

[LordHeini]

Also you could just get one by Cherry itself.

I have 2 Cherry MX Board 3.0 i am quite happy with those.

Not even that expensive and of course no internet of shitty things.

[sky_rw]

Curious, what are the primary complaints about them? I've used one for about a year and have had no issues with it.

[taspeotis]

I have had four Das Keyboards and they have been quite good, two years+ out of each, but the USB hubs in all of them have been a bit hit-and-miss. Either devices are not detected in one of the two ports or one seems to charge my iPhone faster than the other.

Again, they've been quite good to me but my work and home keyboards both have a dud key (in quick succession) so I am looking for a cost effective Cherry Blue or Brown replacement.

[masklinn]

> two years+ out of each

That's… just about nothing for a keyboard. I bought my wireless apple keyboard in 2010 and it's behaving perfectly, my MS Ergo 4000 is 10+ and the only issues with it are the plastic's paint going.

And I don't consider these old.

I wouldn't accept a fucking battery lasting less than 2 years, how can it be acceptable for a keyboard you found anywhere outside a walmart bargain bin?

[HelloNurse]

I don't remember if the cheap keyboard I have at home is USB or PS/2, but its only signs of aging are dirt and yellowing. After 2 years, a keyboard is supposed to be like new; it isn't a smartphone.

[Jare]

> they have been quite good, two years+ out of each, but the USB hubs in all of them have been a bit hit-and-miss

That would be "pretty bad" even for a $10 keyboard.

[berbec]

Does anyone like the Unicomp line as I do? I love the faithful recreation of classic Model Ms.

[hkmurakami]

Don't forget Topre. I use a Kinesis but I know many amazing programmers who swear by Topre.

[jeffbax]

I also use a Kinesis (Advantage) which… glitches out sometimes, but once you get past the first month of being totally incapable of typing it's a pretty excellent coding keyboard comfort wise (gaming - particularly RTS - can be some work though, given its odd layout)

It surprises me that most of the nice key switch keyboards are all standard layout though, rather than more ergonomic options like the Advantage.

[hkmurakami]

Yeah gaming is a challenge. I'm a SC:BW guy so I have to pull out my old faithful DT35 for that :).

Curious what glitches you get?

I made the Kinesis and Dvorak switch at the same time and it was pretty debilitating! Twitter is surprisingly good for a practice medium because your thoughts have to be so short that you don't get the "my mind is 4 sentences ahead of my hands" problem you get with prose.

[jeffbax]

I just have my keyboard totally glitch out at times, my wireless mouse is using the USB in the keyboard and that sometimes just dies, and it seems like it gets into weird modes at times that I had no intention of going into requiring me to simply unplug the damn thing and plug it back in.

It's rare enough to not be annoyed as I otherwise like the keyboard, but it happens at both home and at work where I have the same thing.

Haha, I have not even tried SC:BW with this yet, but maybe I will now that the HD version is out and I already bought it ages ago.

[clircle]

Love my topre keyboard. Would love to have another one just for my office. They are definitely pricey, but I vastly prefer the "soft clunk" of their feel for typing. Ideally I would like to find an ergonomic keyboard with topre switches, but I don't know if such a keyboard really exists.