[arcticbull]

The US prison system is fantastic at one thing: teaching anyone who goes in how to be a criminal. You dehumanize people, pack them in tight, 2-to-a-cell in solitary confinement, and force them to fight each other to survive. They gang up for self defense, fall into negative paths and those follow them outside. They can't get jobs outside because nobody in the US will hire a criminal. Now they have no money, nowhere to live, no support system, no healthcare (because God forbid) and no way to make a living. They didn't learn to survive outside, they commit crimes and they're back in. 75% recidivism [1] seems almost low for such a process doesn't it? At least inside they get food, housing, healthcare and work - talk about socialism.

Which other societies can you point to that don't have prison systems that focus on rehabilitation? Do you have data that shows their recidivism rates are lower?

People don't want to be criminals, they want to live, but they don't all know how.

Clearly the system you advocate is an abject failure at preventing crime, maybe it's time to open yourself up to new processes? It literally can't get much worse.

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is...

[nostalgeek]

> Clearly the system you advocate is an abject failure at preventing crime, maybe it's time to open yourself up to new processes? It literally can't get much worse.

I advocated for nothing, if you read my message I'm not saying one system is better than the other. I'm just saying adopting the nordic model isn't going to work with a society with such a level of violence like the USA.

> People don't want to be criminals, they want to live, but they don't all know how.

Plenty of people want to make money the easiest way possible, and if it involves committing crimes like murdering people they'll do that. You are assuming everybody is like you and follow basic humanism. Well some don't.

[arcticbull]

How do you know the Nordic model won't work if you don't try it? Do you have data to indicate that Nordic model prisons don't work if there's violence? Citation needed or it's not a helpful anecdote. Did you know they're trying it in North Dakota? [1] By making this kind of unsubstantiated claim in support of the system as-is without making any suggestions of your own you're implicitly advocating for the status quo.

And of course some people have severe criminality issues but IMO those should be treated. Even treated as mental health issues.

[1] https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/07/north-dako...

[theShowdown55]

Aren't you ignoring low crime countries with brutal criminal justice systems such as Thailand? It is far more likely the culture of a country that predisposes it to higher or lower crime rates (and the types of crimes). For example, the deeper the black community becomes entrenched in the hip hop culture, the more crime they commit. You see a black person from any financial class adopt white culture, you will find that they succeed. The more they adopt hip hop culture, the more they are failures, criminals ETC.