| > My feeling is that humans are not adaptive to changing game flows either. They are. I'd actually argue that this occurs much more in a pub game than with pros. I'm largely against the concept of a pro for this reason as it amounts moreso to having settled on lockin strategies moreso than intelligent/active/dynamic exchanges. I play a lot of pub games for this reason... To enjoy the heightened dynamics. Tons of rotations and adjustments. Tons of punishments for a great player hot dogging to break their psyche. Lots of very intense examples of dynamic human intelligence. > Most pro games are played with a strategy that is settled once draft is finalized. If the strategy turns out not working, Humans did not show noticeably different adaptivity. You're speaking moreso of 'pro games'. I encounter a great deal of dynamics outside of this grouping... It's where a lot of intelligence comes into play. I think a lot of people are completely uninformed about the game who watch others play a lot w/o actually playing themselves. Pro games are literal theatre for the masses like in a large number of professional leagues. The real stuff happens outside of the spotlight. > Occasionally, a versatile team can transition from a late-game oriented line up to play a split push game. This happens in just about every game I play... Tons of rotations and readjustments when things aren't working out [happens sometimes w/ no communication]. Tons of split pushes.. Strategic ganks. If people have good emotional stability, there will be a pronounced reflection/change after a massive team death incident.... The point of these games are highly intellectual battles. Its why it's a disservice to restrict any features of the game. It's how they maintain balance to avoid the game devolving into idiotic bot like cheesing. Games live and die based on how much cheese is present. > But usually such transition is based on a suiting draft, which requires the team members to be versatile in playing their heroes in slightly different styles; I'd expect pros to have these skill-sets yet I don't see it much because in such showcases its more about optimization and lockin strategies than dynamics. > and a well-oiled team coordination to transition from one to another style. Happens in regular pub and ranked matchups all the time many times w/ little to no communication. As long as someone is not an emotional child, it can sometimes be stressed and instantiated over prolonged swearing and yelling at various players. This is what's maybe missing from the Pro-league... Someone getting in your ass openly for doing something stupid like continuing to battle 3 well organized bots 3v1. > In the show matches, there is no cheesing. It's plain team fight + push; the AIs executed the plan with ruthless precisions. One of the games opened with 4 bots diving bottom tower to get a kill and persistently pushing bot. The human 'pro' sat there hashing it out even though he could have ran to safety and avoided another death and no one from top or mid tp'd to bot on the human team. This hamfisted cheesy snowballing occurred in every match on the bot's behalf because OpenAI restricted the gameplay to favor it. Even so, in a pub someone would have been swearing to the top of their lungs on a mic telling the $@(#@(%* at top/mid to immediately TP and punish such a brazen exchange especially with creeps all over them. Absolutely nothing was precise about the gameplay from the humans or bots. It was the kind of slop I see on servers from the southern portions of the world and punished heavily by any seasoned players. I guess this is where 'pros' are a meme and I've served a good number of them up with gameplay outside of their carefully scripted comfort zones. > TBH, a typical pub game is best described as strategy-less game play. And pro games probably have 3 styles of play: Typical pub is chaos which is why I've seen a number of pros get their behinds handed to them in it.
They're sort of like bots in that they think they have the game completely figured out and have a golden strategy no one can defeat. It's a flaw not a good trait. In ranked, you're going to see some amazing gameplay even w/ random non-party individuals. Anyone who plays knows about the games where its like a symphony playing. Limited talking, tons of rotations/ganks/readjustments/team fights/split pushes/team pushes/ratting/baiting/etc. "Pros" are not Pros in my book. They're a group of players who center on a optimal echelon of gameplay that everyone at that level tends to agree upon. Throw some dynamics in and they fall apart. What I saw across all of the OpenAI bot games is nothing to go home writing about. If they were true to things, they'd show how these bots play in all-pick no restrictions. They claim to be after Strong AI not Weak based game bots. It's not about winning/losing... It's how you play. This is enough of my personal commentary on this issue.
People are unable to see past these approaches and what they truly are and that's fine with me at this point. Catch you on the flip side. |
What would really happen when pub-styled play is actually used in pro scenes for million-dollar prizes? If it is actually superior, why none of the pro teams caught up and tried using it to win?