[TulliusCicero]

> OpenAI's goal is to see if they can recreate the ability to plan and strategize over a partial information continuous long time horizon environment.

If this was actually the goal, they would add further mechanical restrictions beyond the 200ms delay to simulate the way humans players play. That way, human and AI would be on a roughly even mechanical playing field, leaving the differentiating factor only strategy/tactics.

As it stands, it looks like their victory is as much based on raw mechanical superiority as it is strategic/tactical superiority. Computers being able to be pixel-perfect accurate at all times, issue commands at ludicrous speeds, etc. is kind of an uninteresting advantage in the context of building strategic AI.

[lawrenceyan]

What in your opinion would be a sufficient delay? 200 milliseconds is well within the average reaction time of a human, especially where at the pro level, I'm betting it's much lower than that.

[CrystalLangUser]

That doesn't account for focusing on other things. There are a multitude of things to take into account while playing dota that can pull your attention; you can't always directly focus on your character in expectation of a blink initiation.

[chii]

but that's moving the goal post: why is attention a factor here at all?

[CrystalLangUser]

Because ~200ms reaction time isn't exactly accurate when people are comparing focus on one action versus focusing on many things at once. Reaction time is going to be delayed then for humans (unless they happen to be expecting it at that particular moment), but for bots that doesn't happen.

So this current ai is uninteresting because bots can always instantaneously begin to react on any feedback, whereas humans have to pan and drag the camera around to look at different feedback in the first place, let alone react. Mechanically, humans also have to move the mouse all over the place and think of key combinations, in addition to reacting. Not just clicking a static box on cue.

It -would- be interesting if bots were limited just like humans to the camera view, -not- an API that continuously feeds them information. The bot would then have to learn how to prioritize working the camera, and it would be limited to only what the camera sees, etc.

[chii]

I think the ai isn't winning on superior speed and reaction time alone (but it is indeed a factor).

Computers already have perfect memory and recall, so when the image recognition tech becomes good enough to only rely on the visual input, are you then going to say the bot must now limit its recall to "human" levels?

[CrystalLangUser]

No, but that at least would be interesting, since it would be playing using the same mechanics as a human, and with the same limitations (of the camera, etc). Not using an API.

[yourMadness]

Reaction time is usually measured as time from stimulus to a button press.

For many things in Dota you also need to move the mouse cursor to a specific point on the screen which obviously takes longer than just pressing a button.