[hardwaresofton]

OpenBazaar[0] already is this idea.

I just checked the github post and one of the committers to openbazaar-go has left a nice lengthy comment explaining why/how[1].

Hopefully the people interested in Nile just put their support behind OpenBazaar instead.

[0]: https://openbazaar.org/

[1] https://github.com/open-source-ideas/open-source-ideas/issue...

[SamPatt]

I work on OpenBazaar and want to add that we've built it to support people creating custom front end clients for their own particular use case and are not compelled at all to use the reference client.

So they can use the OpenBazaar backend but still have the local focus they want by making a new front end.

We've been working on decentralized ecommerce for a long time and I would love for a fresh group of developers to take a look at it and give us their thoughts. It's all MIT licensed open source.

[hardwaresofton]

I think it would be really good to finally take a solid stance on creating a path to deal with payments made outside the platform.

It seems like it could just be generalized and tied into the reputation system[0]. Basically just let users claim they've paid and let buyers claim they've received payment through whatever outside-platform method.

[0]: https://www.openbazaar.org/blog/decentralized-reputation-in-...

[jaxtellerSoA]

How does a distributed market (like OpenBazaar) deal with trust? Is every transaction put into escrow?

The idea of a open, distributed market, is great. But the reality of scammers, cheaters, etc. is a big hurdle to over come. One of the great things about Amazon is the customer service, I don't really worry about not getting a product, or if I need to return an item to Amazon I am also confident that it won't be an issue. This seems really hard to accomplish in a distributed system with lots of small "shops".

[SamPatt]

There are two types of payments in OpenBazaar: direct and moderated.

Direct is when buyers completely trust vendors. There's no escrow and no safety net at all.

Moderated is when both parties agree to a third party moderator and the funds go into a two of three multisig account. Two parties need to agree to release the funds. Normally it's the buyer and seller but if they can't agree then they open a dispute with the moderator, who resolves the dispute and sends the funds to rhe winning party (or slipts them).

Moderators get a small percentage payout when disputes are settled. It's an open marketplace for offering moderator services.

The moderator doesn't have complete control of the funds (two parties are needed) and they aren't even aware of the transaction until a dispute was opened, so it has some advantages over traditional centralized escrow services.

[antidesitter]

What’s the current status of proof-of-burn for reputation?

[SamPatt]

Not used. I was in the very early versions of OpenBazaar.

[russdpale]

Just wanted to say thanks. I think you guys are doing important work.

[Sir_Cmpwn]

OpenBazaar is tied to cryptocurrency, which makes it a non-starter.

[hardwaresofton]

I get the desire to avoid cryptocurrency in general but as a technology it is a good fit (quite possibly the only fit, I'm not sure what other decentralized payment systems are out there) for what they want to achieve.

There has been discussion on whether they accept other forms of payment[0] (probably lots and lots of times), and supposedly they'll take PRs. Maybe someone should write an external payment API that really just acts like a dummy "blockchain" and works off of human verifications (along with some sort of trust score).

That, or someone could theoretically create a blockchain that did nothing but validate payments on other platforms (I have no idea how it would work but it seems possible), so a payment on the imaginary blockchain would equal a confirmed payment on some payment platform with sufficient API support.

[EDIT]- found another thread[1]

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2lddjy/besides_...

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/531vui/openbaza...

[Sir_Cmpwn]

Or you could rip all of this BS out and just integrate with existing, non-decentralized payment processors, and avoid alienating all non-technical users in the process.

[hardwaresofton]

So the thing is Bitcoin isn't bullshit. The technology and the papers are solid -- it's the application and the resulting hypetrain and what it spawned that you're railing against (from what I can tell, please let me know if I'm wrong).

Bitcoin does not have 0 use cases, it has ~1 that's extremely rare in practice, so much so that it's usually not worth using bitcoin. But it does have a usecase. Something something spherical cows.

[127]

Most payment processors are highly mutable by US politics.

[paulddraper]

In what way?

[127]

Julian Assange is one good example. The recent Iranian attempt to withdraw 350 million from a German bank is another.

[bufferoverflow]

Most cryptocurrency is easier to use than a credit card. You scan a QR code and click "confirm" to pay. So that "non-technical" criticism is a red herring.

[koube]

I disagree with this. The process for 99% of people to use a credit card is "reach in your wallet, hand a card over or type in the number". The process for 99% of people to use crypto is "read on wikipedia on what cryptocurrency is, ask someone how to use it, get a lengthy lecture about how distributed currency is the future", and then they're still not anywhere close to using crypto.

[mkirklions]

I find crypto currency identical in difficulty as using foreign currency.

Once you convert Fiat to crypto, its easier to spend than using a debit/credit card.

Getting it from Fiat to crypto is the hard part. After that you literally scan a QR code or type in an email.

Its my preferred way of paying because I always have my phone but I dont always keep my wallet in my pocket. I dont need to add my address and birth date. I just send money.

Also, to clarify, I'm not a fan of alt coins(at the moment) only Bitcoin I believe is useful. Between coinbase Email, Shift card, and the usual on-chain txns, Ive basically made the change to Bitcoin lifestyle.

[spookthesunset]

> Most cryptocurrency is easier to use than a credit card.

It is until it isn't.

- Got screwed by a vendor and want to issue a chargeback? Nope. Can't do it.

- Sent to the wrong address because of a typo? Sorry for your loss!

- Got your wallet emptied by a malicious program running on your computer? Sorry for your loss.

- Too many people using the crypto, resulting in confirmations taking forever and/or costing a ton? Too bad, so sad!

- Fiat price of crypto swung widly before / after transaction resulting in your purchase costing far more / less than expected? Should have hodl'd buster!

- Want to convert all that BTC into fifthly dirty fiat? Better find an exchange that actually pays out in USD and not tether. Also better hope that said exchange actually has the money and isn't insolvent.

etc...

[TylerE]

That's like saying driving a car is simpler than walking because you don't have to put on shoes.

[mmanfrin]

You've either missed the obvious or willfully ignored the fact that to use crytpo, you must first have it. This is what makes it untenable for the majority of people.

[antidesitter]

Do you know why OpenBazaar chose to support cryptocurrency?

[QML]

There's a lot of information already here [1], but I might add it'd be easier to create a Bitcoin wallet for each user than to open a PayPal or Stripe account for each.

[1] https://openbazaar.org/features/

[mkirklions]

Im pretty sick of websites asking for my home address, phone number, and (most importantly) my email address.

This is easily one of my favorite parts about Bitcoin. Scan the address and you are done.

[cjhanks]

Or, build in integrated `crypto <--> $$` exchange.

[cryptobeanbaby]

There's no point in doing that, because if you can do that you can do $$ <--> $$

[s73v3r_]

It can't be that hard to change it to use whatever payment processor the seller wants, shouldn't it?

[Sir_Cmpwn]

Well, it's probably require a fork. Cryptocurrency is already tightly integrated with OpenBazaar. This also removes all of the platform's credibility in my eyes.

[antidesitter]

Why does it remove all of the platform’s credibility in your eyes?

[Sir_Cmpwn]

Because it shows that they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems.

[SamPatt]

OpenBazaar is over four years old now. It didn't emerge out of blockchain hype.

Cryptocurrency means it can be completely peer to peer and not reliant on any payment processing platforms, and with multisig is allows for powerful escrow as well.

[antidesitter]

they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems

On what basis do you make that accusation? And how does supporting cryptocurrency preclude them from solving "real problems", whatever that means?

[api]

During the height of dot.com mania would you have written off all web projects?

People did. I remember reading those kinds of comments.

[arisAlexis]

or maybe you are resistant to change and fail to see the value of decentralised money ?

[SamPatt]

We would absolutely welcome attempts to integrate other forms of payment into OpenBazaar. Our escrow system currently relies on multisig but that's the only significant impediment to adoption.

[arisAlexis]

why a non-starter can you explain? cryptocurrency is very good for these use cases

[hinkley]

We are better off with two platforms poaching ideas from each other.

As long as it stays two or three this is a good thing. If it turns into twelve I’ll be right there beside you with a torch and a pitchfork. Until then I’m sticking with popcorn.

[SamPatt]

OpenBazaar isn't the only decentralized marketplace out there, but it is the only one with any significant adoption.

It took four years to get there so rebuilding from scratch seems unwise when it's open source and you could add you own improvements or just fork it.

[fiatjaf]

OpenBazaar isn't well-suited for local transactions. It could be, I would love that, but currently I can only select _my entire country_ as a delivery area. That's insane. Brazil is huge and I can only deliver to my neighborhood.

[SamPatt]

You can use an address and not just the whole country.

But yes, OpenBazaar currently isn't built for local communities. A feature we want to add eventually.