[geodel]

> something like Swift (which despite Apple's thing, goes out of its way to engage the community in feature roadmap)

Good you say that. Not too long ago solutions from swift-server-group is discarded and Apple simply developed swift-nio in-house. I read that server group was blindsided by this development and now more or less disbanded.

[coldtea]

Not sure about the swift-server-group situation -- some where blindsided, but here's e.g. the head of the closely related Vapor (server side web framework) project:

"I've seen a surprising amount of people thinking that the server-side Swift community or the Swift Server working group was somehow blind-sided by SwiftNIO. That couldn't be farther from the truth. We had known about SwiftNIO before the first line of Vapor 3 code was even written."

And in any case, even if the server group was blindsided it's not representative of a general tendency, as there are a very active features discussions e.g. in https://forums.swift.org/c/evolution with the community and public members involved and shaping changes.

[geodel]

Well discussion is all fine. The important thing will be if Swift core team which is all Apple employees (except Chris Lattner who left Apple recently and removing him would look petty) will simply accept community solution even if they don't think its right.

I don't know of examples if anything got in Swift just by force of community without core team approval. And it seems right thing to me whether Swift or Go or Rust.

One thing better in Swift is clear rejections of pitches if it is not right for swift which makes sense as communication is always better with everything Apple.

[coldtea]

>I don't know of examples if anything got in Swift just by force of community without core team approval.

It's not about that though. Of course the core team should approve. It's when the core team only approves its own things, which often are designed decidedly not the way that the community wants, that's the problem.