[flyinghamster]

What's especially infuriating is the dark pattern that began with Windows 8 and has become worse in Windows 10: hiding that you can create a local account instead of using a Microsoft clown, er, cloud account.

The more I see things like this happening, the less I want to entrust anything important to MS, Google, Amazon, etc.

[bmarquez]

Yes, not only does Microsoft push their cloud account for login, they also spam ads in their notification bar. Going from memory, exact words may vary:

- "Install Microsoft Authenticator to log in with your phone"

- "Sign up for OneDrive to protect against ransomware attacks"

- "Do more with Microsoft Edge!" (this one shows up when you change your default browser)

I prefer my operating system to not upsell me.

[jackhack]

There is also : "There must be a problem with your Microsoft account. Click here to fix it" alert on the notification bar.

The only problem with my Microsoft account seems to be that I didn't create one. Not a problem to me, but obviously a problem at Microsoft. |But then I'm only the guy who BOUGHT the computer and deliberately avoided creating a MSFT account. What do I know? Funny how there's no "go away and never bother me again" option on that alert.

more and more, Microsoft makes me feel like a visitor in my own home (computer).

[dm319]

> Microsoft makes me feel like a visitor in my own home (computer).

I think it started with XP. If you tried to avoid installing windows genuine advantage (by deselecting it during the update procedure), it would come up again, then come up with increased frequency. Until in my case, it somehow just started installing itself of it's own accord.

[Multicomp]

But wasn't WGA somewhat a part of verifying a given installation of Windows wasn't pirated?

[yebyen]

You mean that Windows installation that you bought (directly or indirectly), that potentially didn't have this WGA feature on it when you bought it?

[yebyen]

No clue why am I being downvoted? Maybe it will help to show my point if I say more... Windows didn't always have WGA on it, but people have been paying for Windows for decades. My first Windows license was Windows for Workgroups. 95 and 98 didn't have WGA, and earlier versions of XP didn't have it either. WGA came labeled as a "Critical Security Update."

People paid money and bought computers that came bundled with Windows licenses, and then they paid money for Windows major updates, and then ultimately Microsoft decided to bundle most of the updates for free. But one day in one of the free updates, they added in WGA (how is this not bait and switch of loyal paying customers? My operating system needs to phone home for security reasons?). But you had to opt-in. Then they decided in a later free update that it wasn't such a great idea to allow their users to permanently opt out, and their software got increasingly aggressive about making sure WGA was always enabled. You could opt out, but it tried again. And finally you just couldn't opt out anymore.

Then they used dark patterns to ensure you would think you needed a Microsoft account just to log into their computers. Wait was it your computer? Now this article about someone whose Microsoft account was closed without explanation and they're up shit-creek for it.

Is this not all absolutely part of the same conversation? It's a long history with a lot going on in it. This is not a rant against Microsoft, but a cautionary tale against depending on SaaS and letting it creep into your stack, as that's apparently also what Windows has become now, too.

I was 10 years old in the 1990's and recently I realized that I had actually convinced (or suppressed) in my memory that IE was never really a monopoly, but the historical statistics on browsers tell a very different story. So maybe my memory is not so good about IE, and given that I switched to an Open Source system in my teenage years and didn't look back, perhaps that can be excused, but still most people actually haven't. (Hell, some are still using IE...)

I guess it's true that, with the coming of the Internet, and the possibility that you could easily download and pirate Windows, if everyone knows this and WGA doesn't happen in 2008, then your security is legitimately at risk if Microsoft can't profit off of Windows, because then they won't have any incentive left to provide updates except at cost... and you need updates (we need you to get updates, it's like a vaccine that herd immunity only works to stamp out the disease if most people get innoculated.)

Microsoft is much bigger now than when the internet was new, and I think are not really worried about making a profit off of Windows anymore. But as a Windows user, I think that understanding of the history and assessment of the current state of where we are at with Windows profitability and updates would be troubling, for me.

[sli]

8.1 decided tha

[0x0]

If you sign up for a mock microsoft account and break the TOS on purpose, will they leave you alone with the notifications? :O

[NullPrefix]

>my own computer

Have you noticed how on the desktop it says "this PC", not "My PC" ?

[Spooky23]

In the age of Windows 10, you adopt a PC to ensure that it gets the appropriate updates. Your productive use is a secondary consideration.

[fpgaminer]

Not just the notification bar. I get spammed every time I start a game with little popups telling me various keys I can push to access Windows features while I'm in the game. (_Every_ time. The same notifications). I get spammed _during_ gaming with popups telling me to install Skype or some other Microsoft product. Plus all the spam on the lock screen about using a Windows phone (I haven't even _seen_ anyone with a Windows phone in five years).

Of all the obnoxious things with Windows 10 there was nothing that made my blood boil more than being in the middle of a competitive Overwatch match and have Windows pop up over my screen telling me to install Skype.

(The second place award goes to when I was using one of those early developer builds of Windows 10 and the license expired. Next time I booted the machine it booted into a blue screen telling me that, because it had expired, they went ahead and deleted a system file that made the OS impossible to boot. The exact details are fuzzy now, but that's the gist of it. I'm seriously not making that up. Important system file deleted; OS dead)

[y4mi]

> I get spammed every time I start a game with little popups telling me various keys I can push to access Windows features while I'm in the game. (_Every_ time. The same notifications).

you can disable that, and it might actually improve your performance as well!

I think it was in Settings (the windows 10 settings, not the old control panel) / Gaming / Game Bar [disable] && Game DVR [ OFF ]

> I get spammed _during_ gaming with popups telling me to install Skype or some other Microsoft product. Plus all the spam on the lock screen about using a Windows phone (I haven't even _seen_ anyone with a Windows phone in five years).

never experienced that, nor do i use the lock screen @ home, so no clue there

[sp332]

http://www.sediment.uni-goettingen.de/staff/dunkl/zips/The-M... The Murderer, by Ray Bradbury.

It's one of those talking, singing, humming, weather-reporting, poetry-reading, novel-reciting, jingle-jangling, rockaby-crooning-when-you-go-to-bed houses... With stoves that say, 'I'm apricot pie, and I'm done,' or 'I'm prime roast beef, so baste me!' and other nursery gibberish like that... A house that barely tolerates humans, I tell you.

[duskwuff]

Oof, that feels shockingly prescient. Our smart appliances may not be singing to us, but otherwise...

[sp332]

Alexa does sing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYGN5ocl950 and with a little modification it will play a lullaby if you ask it to https://www.amazon.com/Pretzel-Labs-Baby-Lullaby/dp/B07B7LH8...

[nostalgeek]

> - "Do more with Microsoft Edge!" (this one shows up when you change your default browser)

lol, "do more ..." a browser that doesn't even support basic API like EventTarget or CustomEvent constructors. they learned nothing since IE debacle.

[dghughes]

>Add your phone to Microsoft Authenticator to log in

It's not the same but I made the mistake of trying the Microsoft launcher on my Android phone. Maybe I was thinking it was the MS Authenticator app. What a disaster! It took me a while to figure out how to revert back.

For the curious to undo the MS launcher: settings > apps > click dots in top corner > Default Apps > Home Screen > Choose a different launcher

[roryisok]

In fairness, this is the way you remove any android launcher, it's not some crap MS cooked up.

[dghughes]

Oh I agree with you. I should have phrased it that it was more the way it was phrased by Microsoft that lead me down the garden path. I assumed MS meant something else.

But I do see many other people asking how do undo the MS launcher so it seems like I wasn't the only fool.

The MS launcher does look interesting but it was not what I wanted.

[roryisok]

Me either. I wanted the full, exact windows phone start screen and I did not get that

[godzillabrennus]

You aren’t the target customer for Windows any longer. People who don’t know any better are.

At least they were forced to offer LTSB for enterprise customers. Though I recently read they are rebranding the name.

[Spooky23]

Office is no longer supported on LTSB!

[wattonen]

Really? Do you have a prove?

[Spooky23]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4076504/announcemen...

[josephorjoe]

I just got a new pc and decided I wanted Office for it. I did not want to rent Office with an online subscription as I flat out do not trust that the pricing and offerings will be stable, and after jumping through many hoops (err, web searches) manage to buy "Office Classic".

But I still ended up needing a Microsoft account for the download. I was surprised to find I already had one (for the email I was using) , but I did and I was able to use it to download/install/validate the software.

Only later did I realize it was an account I created for my son to play Minecraft... hopefully he doesn't manage to get me banned from the Microsoft ecosystem.

[dm319]

Yes! I'm not sure which update it is, but a fresh install of Windows 10, you really have to think outside of the box to not sign up to their account. It's a shame no-one has put it up on the dark UI pattern hall of shame yet...

[candiodari]

It's pretty scary that Microsoft and Apple are the only commercial options where it's even possible. With Google's various offerings, from Android to Chrome, it's not even an option.

In the future this can only exist if people pay for it, and clearly ... that's not going to happen.

[ReverseCold]

Protip: Don't connect to WiFi when first setting up Windows. If possible, use an Enterprise, Education, or Pro (in that order) version of Windows.

I didn't even know a Microsoft account was an option when I set up my desktop :)

[saganus]

Could you elaborate on why Enterprise above Pro?

I'm no entirely familiar with the differences and I've been planning on buying a Win10 Pro license, so any advice would be helpful :)

[ReverseCold]

Well first of all, you can't buy an Enterprise license (normally, but there are sketchy sellers who will sell you one).

Enterprise licenses give you full control of the OS via group policy in addition to all the things that Pro gives you. You can effectively turn off anything you want in the editor.

You also have full control of updates, so if that's what was keeping you away from W10 then... there you go.

[saganus]

Uhmm... too bad I can't buy an Enterprise edition. Would love to be able to disable all those things.

Then, does that mean that you can't edit those settings in the Pro version? (I know there are some utilities to do that, but I would prefer to do it natively)

[ReverseCold]

> Then, does that mean that you can't edit those settings in the Pro version?

Unfortunately you can't. The 3rd party utilities work fine though, you just have to run them again after every major update.