[d4l3k]

There are some bad JS websites, but most of them do have proper bookmarking since pretty much every web framework supports adding multiple pages including forward and back navigation. Browsers are also good enough to handle #links as well within a SPA app. Also, they tend to have faster than typical loading times for navigation within the site.

Flash didn't have any of that, and was much slower to load than modern JS websites.

[iforgotpassword]

Just no. I'm on latest chrome on android 6 and when I browse search results on YouTube, then click a video and hit back I expect that the scroll position within the results is restored. Instead when I hit back I only see the red top bar and a loading spinner and a moment later the results show up again and I'm at the top of them. Because we don't have nice paged results anymore, but this hip and ubercool dynamically extending page of results and everything.

And this is not some student's first approach at modern web technologies, its fucking YouTube from google. They can't get their shit working on their own browser. I have yet to see an SPA with a convincing UX that's more than just some wannabe webdev's "about" page.

[lucideer]

> this is not some student's first approach at modern web technologies, its fucking YouTube from google

It's sad that Google is revered by the developer community as a role model for software engineering because their frontend web work has—at least for the last ~10+ years—always been terrible and a really great example of worst practice.

Gmail's early HTML version is possibly the last faded memory of a quality frontend product coming from Google. Everything they've created since the advent of GWT has been aggressively anti-user and anti-interop. Gmail took a long time to get full browser support and a longer time to play will with back buttons, etc.—meanwhile the Gmail interface has slowed and bloated with each iteration; the latest bordering on unusability on my very new midrange laptop. Wave never worked in anything but Chrome, the same is true of the early iterations of most of their large newly released products over the years. The Google homepage provides a totally inconsistent experience across browsers—on mobile I see three different results views in three different browsers, two are Blink-based! Why doesn't search by image work on mobile? We're thankfully no longer lumped with the distaster desktop experience the was Google Instant Search.

Similarly, Microsoft and Apple don't have great histories here. When looking for good development practices, you should always look at the example set by companies that need to compete. Monopolies don't need usability.

[qubitcoder]

> Why doesn't search by image work on mobile?

This is a great example of Google's spotty frontend work -- especially since you can simply tap the share button on iOS, and then scroll over to "Request Desktop Site". And voila, image search now works perfectly. You can even click the camera icon to upload an image directly from your phone. And yet, this functionality is completely hidden by default on mobile.

[catdog]

Ironically google landed its initial success with (and maybe partly because of) an ultra minimalist website focused to the task. They seem to have forgotten that and now they have bloat everywhere. Instead of reducing it they put a lot of resources into developing technologies to deliver that bloat more efficiently.

[lucideer]

> Instead of reducing it they put a lot of resources into developing technologies to deliver that bloat more efficiently.

Efficiency has a lot of different definitions depending on whom the efficiency is "for". I would say Google put a lot of resources into increasing the bloat (adding abstractions) in order to automate the creation and maintenance of their services. They are the pioneers of removing humans from the equation: they're using ML to create their maps, instead of the previous focus on humans driving around with cameras, they have a notorious lack of human-intervention customer service for most of their paid services, even GWT which I mentioned above removed human JavaScript devs (admittedly in order to allow Java devs to write it, but unlike other transpilers—e.g. Typescript/Coffeescript—which produce a relatively readable direct JS equivalents, GWT is heavily abstracted and the output isn't in any way representative of what a human would create).

[zo1]

Call me a conspiracy-theorist, or crazy. But I say that that is by deliberate design. Just like the push for HTTPS, on some level. You can't proxy most of the web, you can't cache, you can't bookmark SPA and ajax-loaded results, you can't scrape any of the data easily, you can't intercept and modify it if you wish without doing fancy SSL certificate injection.

"Gee, I remember seeing this unique comment on a youtube video. Let me search for it, maybe some web-crawler has indexed it and made it available to the rest of the web. Nope."

"Oh I remember the video, it was XYZ. I'll just go there and find the comment. Oh, it's not at the top of the comments, and there are 5600 comments."

"It's okay, I'll just ctrl-F for that specific word I distinctly remember was used in that comment. Nope, ctrl-f only finds what's loaded in the Dom, you've got to scroll!"

"Hmm, maybe I can just keep scrolling for a while till I find it. Scroll, wait. Scroll, stop, loading icon, scroll some more, wait, scroll some more, wait."

Hey, at least I can share a specific time-stamp location within the video on Google+ and Facebook!

[paganel]

On top of that, opening an email in a new tab from inside of GMail hasn’t worked for at least 2 years now, and it doesn’t look that they’re going to bring back support for this basic functionality any time soon. At least the new GoogleMaps version has gotten pretty acceptable in the last year or so, it’s almost as responsive as the classic one used to be.

[kevin_thibedeau]

Firefox Android doesn't suffer from this defect.

[yellowapple]

And then you have developers/companies/projects that end up treating JavaScript+HTML5 like "Flash but newer" or "Java but newer" or (for maximum pain) "Silverlight but newer". That sort of mentality - whether conscious or unconscious - underlies the vast majority of single-page apps in my observation/experience.