[phyller]

China, when it was actually socialist and redistributing wealth, took itself back 100 years and probably produced more human suffering than any other event in world history. So yea, perfect example. Then they reformed and decided to maintain the propaganda but in actuality become capitalist, they became the biggest success story in history. Today, China is more capitalist than the USA. They provide less social services to their people. A few wealthy people control the means of production, and use it to get returns which they invest in more production.

Russia hung on for a while, caused the second largest amount of human suffering in history (only second because they had way less people to start with), and eventually economically collapsed despite having incredible natural resources. They rebuilt along capitalist principles and were doing well until recently. I've read some very interesting articles which talk about how it is almost mathematically impossible to create a smoothly functioning planned economy the way Russia was trying to do it. I wish i could remember where they were. They had smart people who really tried. When the incentives are not lined up properly for the workers and managers to benefit directly from their own production, it is just too hard to control all the variables.