[Godel_unicode]

So breaking the law and endangering pedestrians is ok if it means you don't have to work as hard? As a pedestrian, I HATE cyclists. At least drivers seem to understand what a red light means. I've never been hit by a car, but I've been hit by plenty of bicycles who should have stopped at that pesky red light.

[btrettel]

Let's be clear: you should dislike law breaking cyclists, not all cyclists.

As a cyclist who does not run red lights, I dislike that many people seem to think I am responsible for and/or should be punished for the actions of cyclists who do run red lights.

Plus, I suggest paying more attention to cars. The number of times I have seen drivers run red lights is definitely not zero.

[Godel_unicode]

> I suggest paying more attention to cars.

You appear to be suggesting that I'm being hit by cars and not noticing because I'm not paying attention. I assure you, this is not the case. I'm sorry my experience doesn't match your prejudices, but in my experience many cyclists don't care about or look for pedestrians.

[btrettel]

> You appear to be suggesting that I'm being hit by cars and not noticing because I'm not paying attention.

This is not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that cars also pose a real threat to your life. I haven't been hit by a car either but I still worry.

I don't disagree that "many cyclists don't care about or look for pedestrians". My main point was that you should not paint such a broad brush against cyclists. Many cyclists agree with you! I have spent a fair amount of time talking to problem cyclists, and it seems to me that they would also be problem drivers behind the wheel as well. It's not cycling that makes them bad. It's their lack of concern for others.

> I'm sorry my experience doesn't match your prejudices

This phrasing strikes me as rather hostile. Again, I don't deny that you've had bad experiences with cyclists, so writing of my "prejudices" doesn't really make sense here as I don't believe what you seem to think I do.

In fact, while I won't go into details, I actually stopped talking to problem cyclists because I found them to be both stubborn and violent. I suspect my own experience with problem cyclists may be worse than yours. But again, I focus on problem cyclists, not all cyclists. I am not your enemy!

[kaybe]

To be honest, some red lights are just pointless for cyclists. One example are pedestrian crossings with no pedestrian in sight, another are very small crossings (maybe even at night) where you can see anyone coming half a mile away, with nobody in sight.

I also hate the one where you're supposed to wait 2 light cycles instead of 1 for turning left. That is a major road so people usually follow the rule, but it's not good. At the same time the city advocates doing that twice on both sides of the bridge so you can cross at the proper side on the shared sidewalk and not ride against the (often non-existent) flow on the other shared sidewalk. Of course people still do it.

[btrettel]

I agree that many red lights don't make sense for cyclists in an ideal world. But given the double standard being applied to cyclists, I don't want to give hateful people any more excuses.

In Austin, TX, they added signs to certain intersections saying that cyclists can use the pedestrian signal. In effect, this means that cyclists can often legally run a red light. Unfortunately I fear that some drivers don't pay attention to the signs and will think basically 100% of cyclists are illegally running the red light at these intersections. So I usually will wait for the green light, even in this case.

[pluto9]

Those crossings are equally pointless for drivers, but we are still expected to obey the law.

[rimliu]

I have to agree. While I have a good example from the country with a good cycling culture—I saw a cyclist standing at the crossing and patiently waiting for the green light at 2a.m. on the empty street—in my country cyclist are by far the ones with the least respect for the traffic rules. :(

[kcanini]

It's not just cyclists: https://youtu.be/BpRfUh1Dzlw