[pesfandiar]

You're grossly overestimating how much an average person cares about anything outside of their family. The decision to have one or more children depends on many other factors (parents' character, their economic status, social safety, ...) before it even gets to any idealistic activism.

[HumanDrivenDev]

So much this. Altruistic, considerate people who hem and haw over how their decisions effect others grossly over estimate other human beings. Take a walk along the side of a high speed road and look at all the garbage thrown there. People don't give a shit.

[dionidium]

This entirely misses the point, which is that most people -- yes, even altruistic, considerate ones -- don't think of their decision to have kids as politics.

[greglindahl]

Wait, so I should not worry about my personal ethics, but should only consider how shitty everyone else is? I don't think ethics works that way.

[HumanDrivenDev]

I never advised anyone to do anything. I just described some things I've noticed.

[greglindahl]

Ah. I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean, then, thanks for attempting to clarify, but I'm still completely confused.

Altruistic people are generally altruistic because they want to be altruistic for their own personal pleasure, not because they expect anyone else to be like them. So how does "grossly over estimate other human beings" come into play? If anything, most altruistic people underestimate other human beings, due to exactly the thing you mention... which are things that everyone has already noticed.

[HumanDrivenDev]

My altruism was eroded by life experience. I can't quite bring myself to actively screw others over, but I'm definitely not the 'good person' I once was.

Maybe true altruists are more resilient - but they're also much more susceptible to abuse.

[Fnoord]

When I was in California some good 12 years ago littering was $1000 fine as the signs said. And yes, I saw cops on the road. And no, I saw no garbage on the sides.