[colechristensen]

Very similar abstractions are being created over and over, if you are too close it is hard to see that the abstractions are largely the same, and the grand benefits being toted are actually quite small when comparing one to the other and the differences are just attitudes and a tiny bit of tooling that could be recreated for any of the abstractions.

[taeric]

It does get frustrating to lose tooling you previously had. Even more frustrating when some of the instrumentation that you take for granted in the old world is "TBD" in the new one.

[threeseed]

Instrumentation on Kubernetes is pretty incredible albeit complex. You have host, container, application and ingress level metrics. But via the mesh networking eg LinkerD detailed metrics of how containers are talking to each other.

All of which roll into a single metrics server (Prometheus) and dashboard (Grafana).

[taeric]

Most of the instrumentation I have found myself losing have been at the application levels. And to be clear, most of them are still somewhere, but not nearly as well polished as in services we have not on containers. (I'm also primarily talking about a bunch of internal practices at my current job.)

[threeseed]

I can't speak to how you build your apps.

But application level metrics for example on the JVM behaves exactly the same whether it's in a container or not. You can still pull JMX metrics.

[taeric]

Agreed, most of this is in the "how you build your apps."

Setting up all of the special networking tricks to get to the bloody JVM in a container can be annoying. Especially because I guarantee those weren't setup until they were needed.

But yeah, most of my complaint is with folks that dropped the old way of making applications because they wanted to use the new tooling. Completely missing all of the "hidden" use cases the existing applications were made with.