[damienkatz]

Anecdote: about 2-3 years ago I was using about 10g/day kratom and 1gm/day caffeine to deal with chronic fatigue and muscle pain.

I was dependent on both for about 12 months just to function (without them I had a hard time getting out of bed or anything done). But the combo helped to finally get regular exercise, which helped with sleep, which helped me to heal.

The caffeine was _much_ harder to kick than the kratom. A full week of headaches and fatigue due to caffeine withdrawal.

When people talk of kratom being bad because it produces dependency, why don’t they talk of caffeine in the same way? What real negative effects does the kratom have if used long term? My experience says there is none. And all this handwringing is simply due to lack of familiarity.

[tzahola]

1g of caffeine? That's like 25 cups of espresso. Have you had a cardiologic exam beforehand?

[damienkatz]

Its high, but it’s really not that excessive over the course of a day: https://cspinet.org/eating-healthy/ingredients-of-concern/ca...

[throwawayjava]

TIL Starbucks coffee has a ton of caffeine. This explains why I'm super jittery every time I get Starbucks even though I drink (non-Starbucks) coffee every day.

So yeah, two freaking massive 20oz pours of highly caffeinated coffee will get you to around 1 gram.

But FWIW the daily recommended dose is 400mg. 1g is a ton of caffeine and way beyond what you would get to by sipping on coffee throughout the day (it's 10+ cups of drip).

[ianai]

I don’t know where you got 400mg/day. Last I checked it’s 160 mg/day.

[throwawayjava]

https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015 mentions that 400mg/day is the upper bound for moderate caffeine consumption but provides no citation.

I cannot find where the number originates, but there is at least one study @ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027869151... which explicitly claims "vidence supported consumption of ≤400 mg/day in adults is not associated with overt, adverse effects."

[stordoff]

1g of caffeine is high, but with tolerance it doesn't seem _that_ high. I currently use 600mg/day to help with OCD[1], and it doesn't really effect me - heart rate barely moves, and I don't feel noticeably different. I've tried 1g, and it made me feel _slightly_ jittery, but that was about it.

[1] Counter-intuitive I know, but it seems to help - it makes the intrusive thoughts easier to ignore

[cletus]

There's no real reason to go cold turkey from caffeine. I've gotten to over 600mg/day. Not quite 1000mg though. :) Even so, when I have cut back (which I've done, multiple times) I just reduce my usage over 1-2 weeks and it's fine.

[mistermann]

Something to consider is that your experience may not be representative of the norm.