[yetanother1980]

It normalises racism and sexism. If it is OK to discriminate in one way on racial or gender grounds why not another?

Let's get one thing clear. Just because you look like other people you don't get to speak for them. You don't represent all white males any more than the Grand Wizard of the KKK does. Your skin colour or gender have no bearing on this - and should have no bearing on your opinion on this.

[jamescostian]

I think you may have missed when GP explicitly said

>> I don't mean ideologically, but empirically

That said, I disagree with your base claim that

> It normalizes racism and sexism

Those things are already normalized. The idea that everyone has the same opportunities and is treated the same is nice but not matched by reality.

Pushing things in the direction they're already in makes the divide larger. Pushing things in the opposite direction will make the divide smaller - or at least, that's the hope here

[yetanother1980]

I missed nothing.

Racism is inherently wrong. By being racist you are empirically making the world a worse place.

By being racist you are increasing the divide.

[jamescostian]

Can you tell me how you would decrease the divide? I assume that for starters, you would not give money to people just because they fall into any specific category. But how would you address the racism that already exists, and that has already led and is still leading to some groups having more money than others (to a significant degree)?

[yetanother1980]

In this context a fund for poor founders would be a good start.

[jamescostian]

Sounds like a good idea, but it doesn't address what I'm looking for. You said "Racism is inherently wrong" and currently what we have seems to be a mix of racism and systemic racism. The vast majority of VC funding goes towards white males, very little goes to females, and even less goes towards black females. Notice that 76% of venture capitalists are white males[0]. Unless you'd like to argue that there's some inherent reason why that's just how it is and always will be, I think we can all agree that clearly there is some artificially created imbalance at play. Sure, black women aren't the majority of the population, but they are 6%, and they are funded 0.2%[1]

How do you fix this artificial imbalance? Because all I hear time and time again is either "Throw money at the problem to tip the scales in the other direction" or "Ignore the problem". If you're gonna say "ignore it" and not provide any reason beyond, then you're leaving the world in its already racist state. Even if nobody says anything racist, the scales are unbalanced and somehow they ought to get tipped a little to fix that. You can't tip those scales without doing something you'd call racist, but not doing anything leaves you in a racist society, so are you just saying that allowing racism is ok but adding racism to diminish other racism is not? Sounds like we'll never really improve with that mindset

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidteten/2014/04/29/why-are-v...

[1] https://www.fastcompany.com/3060169/one-of-the-biggest-chall...

[belorn]

When addressing issues in society I prefer taking a universal approach.

So if we look at imbalances in outcomes, there is a lot of it for gender and race. Prison rates, life expectancy, health, work profession, suicide rates, homelessness, wealth, children, social support network and more. There is no inherent reason why that's just how it is and always will be, so what can we do to fix this artificial imbalance overall in society?

Throwing money at it don't work. If one correlate how much money a state is spending on the problem and the result, you get a paradox. The more spending the more imbalanced society tend to get. Recently it also seem to increase polarization which had its own long list of issues. Ignoring the problem is also unlikely to do anything, so it lead me to only a single conclusion and that is look for a solution that has shown positive result. Happily there exist such thing but it has sadly also been mostly abandoned by the political platforms that seeks equality.

That is to say; to eliminate categorization based on gender and race and find commonalities rather than focus on differences. A popular tactic around the 70s, but now mostly abandoned. Its not the same as ignoring since you have to active focus on what is common, and its not the same as current methods with throwing money at specific issues since those focus on what is different based on category of groups. By working to eliminate categorization in people minds you tip the scale without doing anything racist, while still being active in addressing the issue.

[consz]

I'm not sure where you got the impression I was speaking for other white males, as I don't think I was speaking about anything at all in my post.

"It normalises racism and sexism" still seems pretty deep in the territory of thought experiment, so I'm still having trouble seeing exactly what are the human consequences of this -- could you give me explicit examples of how this fund negatively impacts individual people (whether or not they are the targeted beneficiaries of the fund)?

[yetanother1980]

> As a white male

If these characteristics are not important to your argument why raise them.

[consz]

First, I have no argument.

Secondly, that detail was mentioned because, as I am neither a woman or a POC, my original question was less likely to be coming from a place of personal bias (“talking my book”, so to speak).